Backup vs COPYing the files in XP

Posted by - Bobb - on August 12, 2008, 5:46 pm

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Non-QB person here .
I'm a PC guy and relatives have a business where I just replaced all the
PC's. They were complaining about how long QB Pro takes to do/verify a
backup from workgroup server to client PC ( hours). I asked "what are you
backing up?" and was told " we have 10 companies in QB and I really only
care about company XYZ (main business). I come in earlier and earlier to
get this done and no one can log on until it finishes.

Everyone ( 5 user license) was logged off for lunch so I asked him to open
the server's QB folder where I saw 3 files listed that started with XYZ.
I said why can't you just do this ?: and I copied the 3 files from server
to a BACKUP folder on his pc ( took 3 minutes) and then - using XP -
highlighted the 3 files - copy to CD ... copy took 3 minutes - Done. They
thought it was magic , but my concern is:
Is that a good backup ?
Does QB HAVE to "do backup" ? or is copy of those 3 files sufficient ? Or
any index files needed ?

The new PC's did help a bit but the main issue is that their file is so
big that QB takes a LONG time to backup/verify. ( the one company has 3
files that are 900mb, 300mb and a small file)
Does QB Pro ( 2007 I think) "do something special to the data" to get it
into 'QB backup / restore data ' format ? I'm thinking if disasters
strikes he deletes/renames the ' 3 bad files on server' and copies these 3
into that folder.
Right or wrong ?
Current plan is to do copy nightly to HDD , then on Fridays burn to DVD -
2 weeks worth of backups then overwrite.

Any feedback appreciated as I could find nothing about "copying files" at
Intuit QBwebsite.
I did just fetch info on automating backup etc from qb website - wondering
if my method is just as good.

Thanks very much.

Posted by Gary Charpentier on August 13, 2008, 1:54 am

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- Bobb - wrote:

> Non-QB person here .

> I'm a PC guy and relatives have a business where I just replaced all the

> PC's. They were complaining about how long QB Pro takes to do/verify a

> backup from workgroup server to client PC ( hours). I asked "what are

> you backing up?" and was told " we have 10 companies in QB and I really

> only care about company XYZ (main business). I come in earlier and

> earlier to get this done and no one can log on until it finishes.

> Everyone ( 5 user license) was logged off for lunch so I asked him to

> open the server's QB folder where I saw 3 files listed that started with

> XYZ. I said why can't you just do this ?: and I copied the 3 files from

> server to a BACKUP folder on his pc ( took 3 minutes) and then - using

> XP - highlighted the 3 files - copy to CD ... copy took 3 minutes -

> Done. They thought it was magic , but my concern is:

> Is that a good backup ?

> Does QB HAVE to "do backup" ? or is copy of those 3 files sufficient ?

> Or any index files needed ?

> The new PC's did help a bit but the main issue is that their file is so

> big that QB takes a LONG time to backup/verify. ( the one company has 3

> files that are 900mb, 300mb and a small file)

> Does QB Pro ( 2007 I think) "do something special to the data" to get it

> into 'QB backup / restore data ' format ? I'm thinking if disasters

> strikes he deletes/renames the ' 3 bad files on server' and copies these

> 3 into that folder.

> Right or wrong ?

> Current plan is to do copy nightly to HDD , then on Fridays burn to DVD

> - 2 weeks worth of backups then overwrite.

> Any feedback appreciated as I could find nothing about "copying files"

> at Intuit QBwebsite.

> I did just fetch info on automating backup etc from qb website -

> wondering if my method is just as good.

> Thanks very much.

First, you made a backup and you only needed to copy 1 of the 3 files to do it.
One was the company file -- the actual data file to copy, one was a 1k
something log file and one was a network transaction file IIRC. Once everyone
is logged off the network transaction file has no data in it.

Second, they can turn the verify part of the QB backup process off.

Third, QB tech support has flat out told me never do verify/rebuild except on
the machine the file resides on. Too much chance of network errors otherwise.

Gary

Posted by Laura on August 13, 2008, 8:23 am

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>- Bobb - wrote:

>> Non-QB person here .

>> I'm a PC guy and relatives have a business where I just replaced all the

>> PC's. They were complaining about how long QB Pro takes to do/verify a

>> backup from workgroup server to client PC ( hours). I asked "what are you

>> backing up?" and was told " we have 10 companies in QB and I really only

>> care about company XYZ (main business). I come in earlier and earlier to

>> get this done and no one can log on until it finishes.

>> Everyone ( 5 user license) was logged off for lunch so I asked him to

>> open the server's QB folder where I saw 3 files listed that started with

>> XYZ. I said why can't you just do this ?: and I copied the 3 files from

>> server to a BACKUP folder on his pc ( took 3 minutes) and then - using

>> XP - highlighted the 3 files - copy to CD ... copy took 3 minutes - Done.

>> They thought it was magic , but my concern is:

>> Is that a good backup ?

>> Does QB HAVE to "do backup" ? or is copy of those 3 files sufficient ? Or

>> any index files needed ?

>> The new PC's did help a bit but the main issue is that their file is so

>> big that QB takes a LONG time to backup/verify. ( the one company has 3

>> files that are 900mb, 300mb and a small file)

>> Does QB Pro ( 2007 I think) "do something special to the data" to get it

>> into 'QB backup / restore data ' format ? I'm thinking if disasters

>> strikes he deletes/renames the ' 3 bad files on server' and copies these

>> 3 into that folder.

>> Right or wrong ?

>> Current plan is to do copy nightly to HDD , then on Fridays burn to DVD -

>> 2 weeks worth of backups then overwrite.

>> Any feedback appreciated as I could find nothing about "copying files" at

>> Intuit QBwebsite.

>> I did just fetch info on automating backup etc from qb website -

>> wondering if my method is just as good.

>> Thanks very much.

> First, you made a backup and you only needed to copy 1 of the 3 files to

> do it. One was the company file -- the actual data file to copy, one was a

> 1k something log file and one was a network transaction file IIRC. Once

> everyone is logged off the network transaction file has no data in it.

> Second, they can turn the verify part of the QB backup process off.

IF you are going to turn off the verify part of the backup process then you
should manually verify the file periodically. This helps keep the file in
good shape.

> Third, QB tech support has flat out told me never do verify/rebuild except

> on the machine the file resides on. Too much chance of network errors

> otherwise.

I have been told to do the back up file to the local hard drive and then
copy the file to an alternative media.This gives you 2 copies of the file
plus it eliminates the chance of network errors.

Another option for making backup files is the Portable copy. This file is
significantly smaller than normal backup files. Everything you need to move
your copy to another computer or even restore a bad transaction is included
in that file. Again, make the portable copy to the local hard drive.

Posted by - Bobb - on August 13, 2008, 11:07 am

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Thanks - now , if I could, a few more questions related to your answers -
inline:

>>- Bobb - wrote:

>>> Non-QB person here .

>>> I'm a PC guy and relatives have a business where I just replaced all

>>> the PC's. They were complaining about how long QB Pro takes to

>>> do/verify a backup from workgroup server to client PC ( hours). I

>>> asked "what are you backing up?" and was told " we have 10 companies

>>> in QB and I really only care about company XYZ (main business). I come

>>> in earlier and earlier to get this done and no one can log on until it

>>> finishes.

>>>

>>> Everyone ( 5 user license) was logged off for lunch so I asked him to

>>> open the server's QB folder where I saw 3 files listed that started

>>> with XYZ. I said why can't you just do this ?: and I copied the 3

>>> files from server to a BACKUP folder on his pc ( took 3 minutes) and

>>> then - using XP - highlighted the 3 files - copy to CD ... copy took 3

>>> minutes - Done. They thought it was magic , but my concern is:

>>> Is that a good backup ?

>>> Does QB HAVE to "do backup" ? or is copy of those 3 files sufficient ?

>>> Or any index files needed ?

>>>

>>> The new PC's did help a bit but the main issue is that their file is

>>> so big that QB takes a LONG time to backup/verify. ( the one company

>>> has 3 files that are 900mb, 300mb and a small file)

>>> Does QB Pro ( 2007 I think) "do something special to the data" to get

>>> it into 'QB backup / restore data ' format ? I'm thinking if

>>> disasters strikes he deletes/renames the ' 3 bad files on server' and

>>> copies these 3 into that folder.

>>> Right or wrong ?

>>> Current plan is to do copy nightly to HDD , then on Fridays burn to

>>> DVD - 2 weeks worth of backups then overwrite.

>>> Thanks very much.

>>>

>> First, you made a backup and you only needed to copy 1 of the 3 files

>> to do it. One was the company file -- the actual data file to copy, one

>> was a 1k something log file and one was a network transaction file

>> IIRC. Once everyone is logged off the network transaction file has no

>> data in it.

What is IIRC ?
The "company file " extension is ... ?? ( I'm off-site now)
( the 900mb file or the 300mb file ?)
The other 2 files are OK to delete from server ?
for each company ? ( freeing up a lot of disk space on server)
Is QB client software for PC same as single user version of QB pro ? Or
does it 'need to talk to server' to process the data ?

>> Second, they can turn the verify part of the QB backup process off.

> IF you are going to turn off the verify part of the backup process then

> you should manually verify the file periodically. This helps keep the

> file in good shape.

Is that an option from QB menu ?
When everyone logged off, he would elect something like:
File - Verify file - and point to which company to check ?
Does it ONLY 'check/verify' good vs bad data when verify is invoked ?
Or does it check each time file opened/closed ? ( So if not backing up
then no need to verify ?) Is this "verify" comparing backup to current
data or checking CRC/data integrity of the SAVED file at any time ?

>> Third, QB tech support has flat out told me never do verify/rebuild

>> except on the machine the file resides on. Too much chance of network

>> errors otherwise.

They do have one company that "has bad data" - I didn't get into it with
them because it wasn't 'my problem' at the time and I could offer no help
anyways, BUT I think they only use their own PC's for everything. They
have a Win2000 WORKGROUP server that is X years old and they never touch
it. They have no clue about sys mgmt - they are merely users. They bought
server/ had installed QB on server and have QB client on each of desktop
PC's. That's why I was nervous - when I saw how they did not manage things
and I started asking ... "What if your C drive drives on the server, how
do you recover ? " and I was told - we back that up to DVD on 'his PC'. I
asked, " Ok, assume the C drive died on the server, how are you going to
get the data from the DVD in his office to the server ? The server doesn't
have a DVD drive and at that point has no OS ?" I got blank looks.
Scary. SO I'll be reviewing the big picture with them.

> I have been told to do the back up file to the local hard drive and then

> copy the file to an alternative media.This gives you 2 copies of the

> file plus it eliminates the chance of network errors.

> Another option for making backup files is the Portable copy. This file

> is significantly smaller than normal backup files. Everything you need

> to move your copy to another computer or even restore a bad transaction

> is included in that file. Again, make the portable copy to the local

> hard drive.

One other QB question is : server vs client Pc data - is it handled " the
same way ?
Could a laptop PC use a Portable Copy of a Workgroup Environment version
of QB - on a plane ? With a CLIENT version of QB - not a single-user
version of QB ? Maybe there are the same thing - I don't know and that's
why I'm asking. If a PC is a client, can it open this portable
file/backup file on its own , or does QB Pro assume that a SERVER has the
data and does the computing via handshaking etc.

Thanks once again.

Posted by Haskel LaPort on August 13, 2008, 3:26 pm

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> Thanks - now , if I could, a few more questions related to your answers -

> inline:

>>>- Bobb - wrote:

>>>> Non-QB person here .

>>>> I'm a PC guy and relatives have a business where I just replaced all

>>>> the PC's. They were complaining about how long QB Pro takes to

>>>> do/verify a backup from workgroup server to client PC ( hours). I asked

>>>> "what are you backing up?" and was told " we have 10 companies in QB

>>>> and I really only care about company XYZ (main business). I come in

>>>> earlier and earlier to get this done and no one can log on until it

>>>> finishes.

>>>>

>>>> Everyone ( 5 user license) was logged off for lunch so I asked him to

>>>> open the server's QB folder where I saw 3 files listed that started

>>>> with XYZ. I said why can't you just do this ?: and I copied the 3

>>>> files from server to a BACKUP folder on his pc ( took 3 minutes) and

>>>> then - using XP - highlighted the 3 files - copy to CD ... copy took 3

>>>> minutes - Done. They thought it was magic , but my concern is:

>>>> Is that a good backup ?

>>>> Does QB HAVE to "do backup" ? or is copy of those 3 files sufficient ?

>>>> Or any index files needed ?

>>>>

>>>> The new PC's did help a bit but the main issue is that their file is so

>>>> big that QB takes a LONG time to backup/verify. ( the one company has

>>>> 3 files that are 900mb, 300mb and a small file)

>>>> Does QB Pro ( 2007 I think) "do something special to the data" to get

>>>> it into 'QB backup / restore data ' format ? I'm thinking if

>>>> disasters strikes he deletes/renames the ' 3 bad files on server' and

>>>> copies these 3 into that folder.

>>>> Right or wrong ?

>>>> Current plan is to do copy nightly to HDD , then on Fridays burn to

>>>> DVD - 2 weeks worth of backups then overwrite.

>>>> Thanks very much.

>>>>

>>>

>>> First, you made a backup and you only needed to copy 1 of the 3 files to

>>> do it. One was the company file -- the actual data file to copy, one was

>>> a 1k something log file and one was a network transaction file IIRC.

>>> Once everyone is logged off the network transaction file has no data in

>>> it.

>>>

> What is IIRC ?

> The "company file " extension is ... ?? ( I'm off-site now)

> ( the 900mb file or the 300mb file ?)

> The other 2 files are OK to delete from server ?

> for each company ? ( freeing up a lot of disk space on server)

> Is QB client software for PC same as single user version of QB pro ? Or

> does it 'need to talk to server' to process the data ?

>>> Second, they can turn the verify part of the QB backup process off.

>> IF you are going to turn off the verify part of the backup process then

>> you should manually verify the file periodically. This helps keep the

>> file in good shape.

> Is that an option from QB menu ?

> When everyone logged off, he would elect something like:

> File - Verify file - and point to which company to check ?

> Does it ONLY 'check/verify' good vs bad data when verify is invoked ?

> Or does it check each time file opened/closed ? ( So if not backing up

> then no need to verify ?) Is this "verify" comparing backup to current

> data or checking CRC/data integrity of the SAVED file at any time ?

>>> Third, QB tech support has flat out told me never do verify/rebuild

>>> except on the machine the file resides on. Too much chance of network

>>> errors otherwise.

> They do have one company that "has bad data" - I didn't get into it with

> them because it wasn't 'my problem' at the time and I could offer no help

> anyways, BUT I think they only use their own PC's for everything. They

> have a Win2000 WORKGROUP server that is X years old and they never touch

> it. They have no clue about sys mgmt - they are merely users. They bought

> server/ had installed QB on server and have QB client on each of desktop

> PC's. That's why I was nervous - when I saw how they did not manage things

> and I started asking ... "What if your C drive drives on the server, how

> do you recover ? " and I was told - we back that up to DVD on 'his PC'. I

> asked, " Ok, assume the C drive died on the server, how are you going to

> get the data from the DVD in his office to the server ? The server doesn't

> have a DVD drive and at that point has no OS ?" I got blank looks.

> Scary. SO I'll be reviewing the big picture with them.

I also have a blank look on my face. Can't you put the DVD into one of the
workstations that has a DVD drive and copy the file up to the server?

>> I have been told to do the back up file to the local hard drive and then

>> copy the file to an alternative media.This gives you 2 copies of the file

>> plus it eliminates the chance of network errors.

>> Another option for making backup files is the Portable copy. This file is

>> significantly smaller than normal backup files. Everything you need to

>> move your copy to another computer or even restore a bad transaction is

>> included in that file. Again, make the portable copy to the local hard

>> drive.

> One other QB question is : server vs client Pc data - is it handled " the

> same way ?

The data file is the same no matter where it resides, either on the server
or on a workstation. QB Pro does not has a CLIENT version.

The portable file because is lacks indexing information plus has compression
is much smaller and is used when the file needs to be e-mailed. I would not
use it as a back up. The portable file can however be read using any machine
that has your version of QuickBooks installed.

> Could a laptop PC use a Portable Copy of a Workgroup Environment version

> of QB - on a plane ? With a CLIENT version of QB - not a single-user

> version of QB ?

Again no such thing as Client version or single-user version. If you have
more than one QB license each licensed user can access the file at the same
time.

Maybe there are the same thing - I don't know and that's

> why I'm asking. If a PC is a client, can it open this portable

> file/backup file on its own , or does QB Pro assume that a SERVER has the

> data and does the computing via handshaking etc.

> Thanks once again.