Annuity Deposit Setup

Posted by JM on September 10, 2008, 12:14 pm

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> JM wrote:

> >> John,

> >> That did it... I changed it to:

> >> Category

> >> Line 1. [Company A] +$250 (Set as transfer from account

> >> [Company A]

> >> tax line item "Out:1099-Total IRA gross distrib.")

> >> Line 2. [Checking Account] -$250

> >> Line 3. Annuity Taxable +$150 (Set for tax line item

> >> 1099-R:Total IRA

> >> taxable distrib.)

> >> Line 4. Annuity Non Tax +$100

> >> Now the Banking Summary Report reflect the proper income and

> >> the Tax

> >> Report is reporting correctly also. Thanks for getting me on

> >> track.

> > Steve/John

> > Was intrigued with the clever work-around to handle the

> > taxable/non-

> > taxable split distribution.

> > Went to a test file and duplicated your entries. Checked the

> > Tax

> > Schedule Report and everything reports correctly there from a

> > tax

> > reporting standpoint.

> > However - did notice one strange result in the Projected Cash

> > Flow

> > [PCF] view [I'm using QW08 Dlx]. The "IN" reports double the

> > distribution as income; i.e., it sees the transfer and the

> > modified

> > [taxable and non-taxable] split entries but seems to be

> > missing/

> > ignoring the "offset"; the "[checking acct]" split entry.

> > Never-the-

> > less, in "What Left", the ending account balance is correct.

> > Stepping ahead a month at a time in the PCF view, the

> > incorrect [2x]

> > income repeats - but the ending account balance is always

> > correct.

> > Ran a Cash Flow Report [Reports > Banking > Cash Flow] and it

> > is

> > correct - the taxable and non-taxable split entries report as

> > income.

> > Do you see similar behavior in the PCF view?

> Yes.

> Not only does the PCF (IN) view not seem to have the ability

> (option) to exclude "internal" transfers, but it seems to treat

> the offset as a postive number (increasing the asset, increasing

> income), rather than a negative number (decreasing cash flow, or

> reducing income) as the Cash Flow report treats it if "internal"

> transfers are included.

> It seems to me the Cash Flow report is treating the offset

> correctly, while the Projected Cash Flow is not.

> --

> John Pollard

> First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com

> Please reply to newsgroup- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

Have done some more tinkering with this and the numbers a starting to
fall in line.
First of all, found that starting the "test" with a new, clean file
helped. Created a checking acct with $0 bal as of 09/01. Added an IRA
acct with $10,000 cash balance as of 09/01.
Entered the transfer of $1000 from IRA to Checking for 09/09.
Modified the transaction in checking register per the above procedure
- used the [checking] split for the offset.
The PCF shows $2000 In - it seems to be counting both the transfer
from IRA and the two splits - taxable and non-taxable components;
i.e., doubles the actual "IN".
Nothing shows in the "OUT" pane.
Interestingly, QW seems to be recognizing the offset in the "Whats
Left" pane - the "Checking Balance as of 9/01" is reported as negative
$1000 - not the actual $0 beginning balance.

Bottom line - the numbers in the PCF view do add up - but in an
unorthodox fashion. And, the actual monthly cash flow in the PCF view
is inflated by the amount of the distribution.

Posted by John Pollard on September 10, 2008, 12:28 pm

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JM wrote:

> wrote:

>> Not only does the PCF (IN) view not seem to have the ability

>> (option) to exclude "internal" transfers, but it seems to

>> treat

>> the offset as a postive number (increasing the asset,

>> increasing

>> income), rather than a negative number (decreasing cash flow,

>> or

>> reducing income) as the Cash Flow report treats it if

>> "internal"

>> transfers are included.

>> It seems to me the Cash Flow report is treating the offset

>> correctly, while the Projected Cash Flow is not.

> Have done some more tinkering with this and the numbers a

> starting to

> fall in line.

> First of all, found that starting the "test" with a new, clean

> file

> helped. Created a checking acct with $0 bal as of 09/01. Added

> an IRA

> acct with $10,000 cash balance as of 09/01.

> Entered the transfer of $1000 from IRA to Checking for 09/09.

> Modified the transaction in checking register per the above

> procedure

> - used the [checking] split for the offset.

> The PCF shows $2000 In - it seems to be counting both the

> transfer

> from IRA and the two splits - taxable and non-taxable

> components;

> i.e., doubles the actual "IN".

> Nothing shows in the "OUT" pane.

> Interestingly, QW seems to be recognizing the offset in the

> "Whats

> Left" pane - the "Checking Balance as of 9/01" is reported as

> negative

> $1000 - not the actual $0 beginning balance.

> Bottom line - the numbers in the PCF view do add up - but in

> an

> unorthodox fashion. And, the actual monthly cash flow in the

> PCF view

> is inflated by the amount of the distribution.

I'm probably missing something.

I interpreted your first reply to say that the PCF IN view
amount was overstated by the amount of the "offset" entry, but
that the PCF WHAT'S LEFT view amount was correct.

And my observation agreed that the PCF IN view amount was
incorrect by the amount of the offset - I didn't bother checking
the WHAT'S LEFT amount.

My thought was (is) that the PCF IN view improperly uses the
offset amount as a legitimate "transfer", when it is an
"internal" transfer and shouldn't affect cash flow.

Do you no longer think that's true? Or did I misinterpret your
first reply?

[Since it doesn't appear that the standard "opening balance"
internal transfers get included in the PCF IN amount, it might
be that having in internal transfer in a split transaction is
confusing the Projected Cash Flow.]

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

Posted by JM on September 10, 2008, 2:35 pm

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> JM wrote:

> > wrote:

> >> Not only does the PCF (IN) view not seem to have the ability

> >> (option) to exclude "internal" transfers, but it seems to

> >> treat

> >> the offset as a postive number (increasing the asset,

> >> increasing

> >> income), rather than a negative number (decreasing cash flow,

> >> or

> >> reducing income) as the Cash Flow report treats it if

> >> "internal"

> >> transfers are included.

> >> It seems to me the Cash Flow report is treating the offset

> >> correctly, while the Projected Cash Flow is not.

> > Have done some more tinkering with this and the numbers a

> > starting to

> > fall in line.

> > First of all, found that starting the "test" with a new, clean

> > file

> > helped. Created a checking acct with $0 bal as of 09/01. Added

> > an IRA

> > acct with $10,000 cash balance as of 09/01.

> > Entered the transfer of $1000 from IRA to Checking for 09/09.

> > Modified the transaction in checking register per the above

> > procedure

> > - used the [checking] split for the offset.

> > The PCF shows $2000 In - it seems to be counting both the

> > transfer

> > from IRA and the two splits - taxable and non-taxable

> > components;

> > i.e., doubles the actual "IN".

> > Nothing shows in the "OUT" pane.

> > Interestingly, QW seems to be recognizing the offset in the

> > "Whats

> > Left" pane - the "Checking Balance as of 9/01" is reported as

> > negative

> > $1000 - not the actual $0 beginning balance.

> > Bottom line - the numbers in the PCF view do add up - but in

> > an

> > unorthodox fashion. And, the actual monthly cash flow in the

> > PCF view

> > is inflated by the amount of the distribution.

> I'm probably missing something.

> I interpreted your first reply to say that the PCF IN view

> amount was overstated by the amount of the "offset" entry, but

> that the PCF WHAT'S LEFT view amount was correct.

> And my observation agreed that the PCF IN view amount was

> incorrect by the amount of the offset - I didn't bother checking

> the WHAT'S LEFT amount.

> My thought was (is) that the PCF IN view improperly uses the

> offset amount as a legitimate "transfer", when it is an

> "internal" transfer and shouldn't affect cash flow.

> Do you no longer think that's true? =A0Or did I misinterpret your

> first reply?

I may not have been clear on this - I am of the opinion that the "IN"
pane is reflecting the original transfer from the IRA plus the two
split entries covering the taxable and non-taxable split entries -
effectively reporting 2x the actual amount deposited to checking.

The internal transfer [the offset] is being picked up in the Whats
Left pane - and is reflected by "adjusting" the beginning account
balance figure.

> [Since it doesn't appear that the standard "opening balance"

> internal transfers get included in the PCF IN amount, it might

> be that having in internal transfer in a split transaction is

> confusing the Projected Cash Flow.]

To check this, just went back and entered the transfer from the IRA
and the offset as two separate entries in the checking register.
Entered the taxable & non-taxable split entries in a single
transaction.. The PCF displays exactly the same info as observed with
a single slit entry combining each of these; i.e., having the internal
transfer in the original split transaction is not a factor here.

One additional piece of trivia - in the PCF view, opened the Account
Balance bar graph at the bottom of the display. The daily checking
account balance display is correct and thus it disagrees with the
stated beginning account balance in the Whats Left pane.

Guess the bottom line is that the OP's method will work for this
situation - recognizing that it is tweaking the PCF display. Could be
a source of confusion to the user - still pondering this issue.

From a tax reporting viewpoint, the method is right on. Same for a
Cash Flow Report.