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Posted by John Pollard on April 2, 2007, 2:13 pm
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Auburn Bob wrote:
> wrote:
>> Auburn Bob wrote:
>>> On Mar 31, 10:22 am, "John Pollard" wrote:
>>>> Auburn Bob wrote:
>>>>> Just upgraded to 2007 Premier, running Quicken for
>>>>> over 10 years, never seen the following issue before.
>>
>>>>> When running a Net Worth report the results do not
>>>>> agree with the portfolio values or the investing
>>>>> account total numbers on the left side of the screen.
>>>>> Yes, the dates are the same (current date) and all
>>>>> options are checked to all accounts, categories etc.
>>>>> etc.
>>
>>>>> After some tracking down here's what I found.
>>
>>>>> Any stock that has paid a dividend shows it's current
>>>>> value in the net worth report off from the portfolio
>>>>> value by the amount of the last dividend paid. On
>>>>> those stocks that don't pay dividends the values
>>>>> check out ok.
>>
>>>>> If I run the net worth report for the day BEFORE the
>>>>> last dividend was paid for a particular stock, the
>>>>> report is ok and matches the portfolio value when I
>>>>> set the date for the portfolio to be the same as the
>>>>> net worth report.
>>
>>>>> Next, if I go into the account transaction register
>>>>> and change the last dividend to another value the
>>>>> value of the stock now matches exactly between the
>>>>> net worth report and the portfolio. If I set it back
>>>>> to where it was, it still agrees ok. So it looks like
>>>>> I have to make a change to the last dividend paid to
>>>>> get it to match.
>>
>>>>> It doesn't matter if the entry for the dividend was
>>>>> done 'manually, or copied and pasted from the last
>>>>> dividend paid.
>>
>>>>> I ran a Super Validation check on my data and there
>>>>> are no problems.
>>
>>>>> Anyone else confirm or deny this issue?
>>>> I don't recall reading of it before, and my very quick
>>>> test just now did not reproduce the problem. (Q2007
>>>> Premier, R4).
>>
>>>> Have you tried creating a New Quicken file, with an
>>>> investment account, one security, buy some shares, then
>>>> enter a dividend transaction ... to see if the problem
>>>> could be related to your current Quicken data?
>>>> (Validate does not catch all corruption, especially in
>>>> investment accounts and the price history.)
>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Pollard
>>> John,
>>
>>> I've learned more, and has a workaround, but it's beyond
>>> my pay grade for sure.
>>
>>> Before I upgraded to 2007 I was still running 2005. In
>>> that version when I entered a Dividend payment I entered
>>> it as Misc Income and then selected one oif the Dividend
>>> categories I created, either taxable or taxfree. In any
>>> case with that version I never saw any issues.
>>
>>> Since I posted my message I've been experimenting, and
>>> here's what I've discovered.
>>
>>> 1] The issue is only for dividends that have been
>>> entered since I upgraded the program, since it was
>>> recently that's just last month's dividends. So it
>>> appears that something has changed in the way Quicken
>>> handles misc income entries between 2005 and 2007; not
>>> sure if that is good or bad or matters, but it's
>>> different.
>> I wonder if there was some "innocent" corruption in your
>> Q2005 data that became a problem after the conversion.
>> Of if the conversion itself created some corruption.
>>> 2] If I enter the Dividend as "Dividend" in the Dividend
>>> field of the standard transaction form for Income
>>> entries, there is no problem, the Net Worth report is
>>> not affected.
>>> But since I like to break dividends down into
>>> taxable or taxfree this it not ideal for me.
>> You don't need to categorize dividends yourself to get
>> this. If you have correctly designated your
>> tax-deferred accounts as tax-deferred and correctly
>> designated your tax-free securities (such as municipal
>> bonds) as tax-free; Quicken can report your dividends
>> correctly.
>> [I think there are really 3 classifications of
>> dividends/interest: taxable, tax-deferred, tax-free. I
>> think many retirement account dividends are
>> tax-deferred, but will become taxable when the account
>> holder withdraws from the retirement account. In other
>> words, many retirement account dividends are never
>> "tax-free".]
>>> 3] However, and here's my workaround, if I enter the
>>> Dividend as before, Misc Income with my category
>> Just noting: I tried using a Misc Income transaction
>> with a user created category ... and it did not affect
>> my Net Worth any differently than a straight Dividend
>> transaction.
>>> AND I
>>> specify the same account as a Transfer Account it takes
>>> the dividend into the same account and again there is no
>>> problem with the Net Worth report. It's 'transferring'
>>> the dividend into the same account as where I'm posting
>>> the entry. Makes no sense to me, but at the end of the
>>> day the money ends up in the same spot and it fixes the
>>> Net Worth report issue.
>>> What I DON'T understand is why if I go back to a
>>> transaction that didn't work, make a change in the
>>> dividend amount, save it, then go back yet again and
>>> change it back to the original dividend amount it fixes
>>> the issue. Unless I'm making some other mistake which is
>>> always possible, this sounds like a bug...
>> There have been several instances when users modified (or
>> deleted and re-entered) investment account transactions
>> and got different (and correct) results. I have guessed
>> the original transaction was corrupted, but I have no
>> way to prove it.
>>
>> If you were using copy/paste, you could have been
>> replicating the problem ... though I recall you said you
>> saw the problem when you entered a transaction from
>> scratch.
>>> (And John, I know you know this, but others might
>>> not...when running the Net Worth report if you customize
>>> the report and check the box to show 'Account Detail'
>>> you can see all of your portfolio's stocks, and so can
>>> track where the difference is between the NW report and
>>> the Portfolio view.
>> Yes, "show account detail" is one of my favorite
>> features, and I used it while trying to duplicate your
>> problem.
>>> Also I am running 2007/R4 on Windows XP w/ SP2 system.)
>> Likewise.
>>
>> You might still consider trying to replicate the problem
>> in a New Quicken file ... I can't reproduce it here (my
>> test data was converted from Q2006).
>>
>> --
>> John Pollard
> John,
>
> Well, I hate to say it, but I just created a new file and
> it's got the same problem. Here's what I did, perhaps you
> can duplicate?
I was in the middle of trying to duplicate and lost power for
several hours. Finally managed to get back on track.
> 1] Created a new file.
> 2] Added a new brokerage account with no securities in it.
> 3] Investing/Security List I added MSFT as a new security.
> 3] Bought 100 shares of MSFT into that brokerage account
> on 3/29/2007 for $26.00
> 4] Went to Tools/Category List and unchecked Hide for the
> Category "_DivInc" under Income.
> 5] Paid myself a $100 Dividend from MSFT on 3/30/2007 by
> entering the transaction as Income and $100 in the Misc
> field, then Chose Category for Misc as _DivInc
> 6] Go to the portfolio view and Download Quotes to update
> the portfolio value.
> 7] Run the Net Worth Report, and presto the Net Worth of
> MSFT is shown as $2,687.00 which is exactly $100 less
> than what's showing in the Portfolio view! [Of course
> since I ran this today, if you run it on another day the
> Market Value of MSFT will be different, but the $100
> difference will still be there, I think...]
I attempted to exactly duplicate what you did ... including
creating a new Quicken file (all my previous tests were done in
a pre-existing test file with many accounts/transactions ... I
have no idea why that should have mattered). I was able to
produce some
strange - and, I think, incorrect results - but not quite the
same as yours.
My Net Worth report showed MSFT having a "Balance" (Market
Value) of $2800 ... which is $13 *more* than its "true" Market
Value based on price/share. The Portfolio Value report showed
MSFT's "Balance" (Market Value) as $2687 ... $100 less than its
actual Market Value, and what you saw in your Net Worth report.
I noticed something else interesting on the Portfolio tab: The
Portfolio tab showed the correct Market Value for MSFT: $2787;
but the Cost Basis was incorrectly reported as $2700. Also when
I expanded the "+" alongside MSFT to see the "lot" I bought,
that one lot showed the correct Cost Basis of $2600; just the
"total" for MSFT (which should only include that one lot) shows
the Cost Basis of $2700.
> Interesting...if you can't duplicate this, I wonder what
> that will mean...or let me know where I've made a wrong
> turn...
I'm not sure what to make of it either. Given there is a
workaround, I don't know if further investigation would be
useful ... but if someone can give me a reason, I'll consider
trying.
--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
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