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Subject Author Date
Download bond price YuriW 04-14-2008
Posted by TomYoung on April 21, 2008, 6:56 pm
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> TomYoung wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> YuriW wrote:
> >>> I have purchased California GO bond and wondering if there
> >>> is
> >>> a way in
> >>> Quicken download it's current price.
>
> >> If you hold the bond at a brokerage from which you can
> >> download,
> >> they may (should, I think) download your bond prices ... but
> >> possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
> >> download.
> > I gave it a try with one of my accounts (Etrade) and bond
> > prices
> > *were* updated even though there were no transactions.
>
> I've never been able to pin down the specifics of this, but I
> frequently don't get bond prices when I think they've changed.
> Anecdotally, I noticed that it seemed it was the days I had no
> transactions downloaded that I didn't get bond prices ... but I
> had recently been coming to think that was not likely the
> criteria. But I put out the caveat, since I do know there are
> days when I don't get bond prices ... just not necessarily why.
>
Well, after a week of downloading bond prices successfully from Etrade
on days when there were no transactions, today I had no success in
downloading bond prices from Etrade, another day with no
transactions. Who knows?

Tom Young

Posted by John Pollard on April 21, 2008, 9:17 pm
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 TomYoung wrote:

> Well, after a week of downloading bond prices successfully
> from Etrade
> on days when there were no transactions, today I had no
> success in
> downloading bond prices from Etrade, another day with no
> transactions. Who knows?

Thanks for the update. Perhaps in time, with enough input, we
will be able to figure out what the requirements are to get
price updates from financial institutions.

Just to throw another monkey-wrench into the works: there is
more than one way for an fi to supply prices. And it seems to
me that there shouldn't be any need for multiple ways, but I am
definitely seeing the differences.

For securities like publicly tranded bonds, I get prices from
the broker where I own the bonds ... even if there are not
transactions involving.

(As I mentioned before, I used to think I needed to have at
least one transaction of some type - even if not for any bond -
that would download for the fi, if I was to see any prices for
securities owned at the fi whose prices were not available via
Quicken quote download ... but I have since determined that is
not the criteria).

But I have other financial institutions where I own securities
whose prices can not be downloaded via Quicken "quote download"
... and which can not be updated by any download that does not
include any transactions. TIAA-CREF is one such institution.

TIAA-CREF is not very user friendly, but at some point (I think
prior to the time when Quicken would derive price updates from
downloaded "holdings"), TIAA-CREF decided that they would
provide prices for their "private" securities by downloading an
"Add Shares" transaction for zero shares but with a price/share.
When such a transaction is "Accepted", its price/share will
update your Quicken price history. You can then delete the
transaction, and the price history price will remain.

My suspicion is that TIAA-CREF can not rely on the download of
holdings to get their security prices updated, because their
securities do not have CUSIP numbers.

Perhaps new updates to the OFX specs will allow institutions
like TIAA-CREF to have their downloaded holdings make
price/share updates available to Personal Financial Software
without the need for phoney Add Shares transactions ... and
maybe, just maybe, institutions like TIAA-CREF will take
advantage of the opportunity.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup



Posted by TomYoung on April 24, 2008, 4:27 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> TomYoung wrote:
> > Well, after a week of downloading bond prices successfully
> > from Etrade
> > on days when there were no transactions, today I had no
> > success in
> > downloading bond prices from Etrade, another day with no
> > transactions. Who knows?
>
> Thanks for the update. Perhaps in time, with enough input, we
> will be able to figure out what the requirements are to get
> price updates from financial institutions.
>
> Just to throw another monkey-wrench into the works: there is
> more than one way for an fi to supply prices. And it seems to
> me that there shouldn't be any need for multiple ways, but I am
> definitely seeing the differences.
>
> For securities like publicly tranded bonds, I get prices from
> the broker where I own the bonds ... even if there are not
> transactions involving.
>
> (As I mentioned before, I used to think I needed to have at
> least one transaction of some type - even if not for any bond -
> that would download for the fi, if I was to see any prices for
> securities owned at the fi whose prices were not available via
> Quicken quote download ... but I have since determined that is
> not the criteria).
>
> But I have other financial institutions where I own securities
> whose prices can not be downloaded via Quicken "quote download"
> ... and which can not be updated by any download that does not
> include any transactions. TIAA-CREF is one such institution.
>
> TIAA-CREF is not very user friendly, but at some point (I think
> prior to the time when Quicken would derive price updates from
> downloaded "holdings"), TIAA-CREF decided that they would
> provide prices for their "private" securities by downloading an
> "Add Shares" transaction for zero shares but with a price/share.
> When such a transaction is "Accepted", its price/share will
> update your Quicken price history. You can then delete the
> transaction, and the price history price will remain.
>
> My suspicion is that TIAA-CREF can not rely on the download of
> holdings to get their security prices updated, because their
> securities do not have CUSIP numbers.
>
> Perhaps new updates to the OFX specs will allow institutions
> like TIAA-CREF to have their downloaded holdings make
> price/share updates available to Personal Financial Software
> without the need for phoney Add Shares transactions ... and
> maybe, just maybe, institutions like TIAA-CREF will take
> advantage of the opportunity.
>
> --
>
> John Pollard
> First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
> Please reply to newsgroup

I emailed Etrade to ask why I didn't get prices for 4/21 - 4/22 when I
did get prices for 4/14 - 4/18, and today (4/23), as it turns out.

An Etrade tech person called me and said that prices *don't* come from
Etrade, but from Intuit. He believes that Intuit sets up a customer
profile when it queries a FI and records CUSIP identifiers that it
uses to pass prices down to Quicken. Ergo, the problem with the lack
of price downloads was not with Etrade, not with something on my end,
but with Intuit.

Tom Young

Posted by John Pollard on April 25, 2008, 9:14 am
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TomYoung wrote:
> I emailed Etrade to ask why I didn't get prices for 4/21 -
> 4/22 when I
> did get prices for 4/14 - 4/18, and today (4/23), as it turns
> out.
>
> An Etrade tech person called me and said that prices *don't*
> come from
> Etrade, but from Intuit. He believes that Intuit sets up a
> customer
> profile when it queries a FI and records CUSIP identifiers
> that it
> uses to pass prices down to Quicken. Ergo, the problem with
> the lack
> of price downloads was not with Etrade, not with something on
> my end,
> but with Intuit.

Based solely on the info you've provided, I tend to think you're
jumping to a conclusion. It certainly is possible that Intuit
is getting it wrong, but if so, they're doing it in an uncommon
and unlikely way.

As far as I know, the OFX specs (that control the way in which
downloads are done and their content) has always allowed for
downloads from investment financial institutions to contain
"holdings" in addition to transactions. And I think the OFX
spec actually recommends that holdings be provided.

It is the downloaded holdings that contain prices for the
securities held at that institution, and every time I've ever
checked, my downloads do include those holdings (including the
prices).

The holdings also include an "as of" date, and that date is not
always the date of the download. I downloaded from Smith Barney
on April 23rd at about 7:30pm CDT. But my downloaded holdings
were dated April 22, so the bonds I hold at Smith Barney did not
get prices for the 23rd. [I did not set the download up as a
test, so I did not check to see if my prices for the 22nd were
changed as a result of the download.]

I certainly don't attribute that lack of bond prices on the 23rd
to Intuit; if Smith Barney did not provide holdings for the date
I downloaded, Intuit could hardly have compensated for that.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup



Posted by TomYoung on April 25, 2008, 6:01 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> TomYoung wrote:
> > I emailed Etrade to ask why I didn't get prices for 4/21 -
> > 4/22 when I
> > did get prices for 4/14 - 4/18, and today (4/23), as it turns
> > out.
>
> > An Etrade tech person called me and said that prices *don't*
> > come from
> > Etrade, but from Intuit. He believes that Intuit sets up a
> > customer
> > profile when it queries a FI and records CUSIP identifiers
> > that it
> > uses to pass prices down to Quicken. Ergo, the problem with
> > the lack
> > of price downloads was not with Etrade, not with something on
> > my end,
> > but with Intuit.
>
> Based solely on the info you've provided, I tend to think you're
> jumping to a conclusion. It certainly is possible that Intuit
> is getting it wrong, but if so, they're doing it in an uncommon
> and unlikely way.
>
> As far as I know, the OFX specs (that control the way in which
> downloads are done and their content) has always allowed for
> downloads from investment financial institutions to contain
> "holdings" in addition to transactions. And I think the OFX
> spec actually recommends that holdings be provided.
>
> It is the downloaded holdings that contain prices for the
> securities held at that institution, and every time I've ever
> checked, my downloads do include those holdings (including the
> prices).
>
> The holdings also include an "as of" date, and that date is not
> always the date of the download. I downloaded from Smith Barney
> on April 23rd at about 7:30pm CDT. But my downloaded holdings
> were dated April 22, so the bonds I hold at Smith Barney did not
> get prices for the 23rd. [I did not set the download up as a
> test, so I did not check to see if my prices for the 22nd were
> changed as a result of the download.]
>
> I certainly don't attribute that lack of bond prices on the 23rd
> to Intuit; if Smith Barney did not provide holdings for the date
> I downloaded, Intuit could hardly have compensated for that.

I may have the *wrong* conclusion but if so it's because what the tech
told me was wrong, not because I'm jumping to it.

He was very clear - but maybe incorrect - that prices came from
Intuit, and when he told me that I expressed my astonishment that for
the 1st 5 days of price downloads that Intuit would have the exact
same price as Etrade. (I logged into Etrade and checked their prices
after Quicken's One Step Update.) For some reason I thought Etrade
provided ending prices based on some Etrade algorithm (Scientific Wild-
Assed Guess) but he told me that Etrade pulls their prices from
Bloomberg and that Intuit probably does the same, hence the prices
would match.

I've never looked looked at the OFX specs so I'm not in a position to
answer your response with any specifics, but the information from the
FI clearly goes through the Intuit servers so there's at least the
possibility the Intuit can insert a price.

Maybe we should establish a database of prices of widely-held bonds
from different FI's and see if we can crack the code.

Tom Young

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