Home Page link  

Fixing up a reconciled but never cashed online payment

 

Quicken Personal Finance Discussions - Quicken - personal finance software discussions

 Post an article  get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Fixing up a reconciled but never cashed online payment Bernie Cosell 05-12-2007
Posted by Bernie Cosell on May 12, 2007, 7:29 pm
Please log in for more thread options
This with Q2006 on XP/Pro: and some background. A while back [like 2 yrs
ago or something -- likely just when I was first installing q2006 or the
likely], I VERY mistakenly and unintentionally turned "online reconcile"
instead of the "paper" reconcile I've been using for forever now. When
they say it is hard to "go back" once you do online, they *MEAN*IT*. It
totally screwed up my register and I pretty much have never been able to
get things sorted out again [I didn't figure out what the problem was
[hadn't even *occurred* to me that it was online-reconcile!] until I'd run
off the end of my many backups. sigh]. Anyhow, after a lot of screwing
around trying to get things working from "paper" again, I eventually kind
of gave up, let Quicken put in a fake "balance adjustment" entry and kind
of got back to balancing my acct [against the paper docs again]. The
'adjustment' came because I *KNOW* that several very old transactions had
been carried forward in my register as having never been cashed and I
really tried to remember what they are [basically solving the knapsack
problem..:o)] to get the damn thing to balance, and just gave up.

Anyhow, I was pretty sure things were OK except about a month ago I got a
letter from someone I had made an online payment to last October: they had
misplaced the check that Wachovia had mailed them, and were afraid to try
cashing it now so they were returning it and asking me to send them a
replacement. That'd be fine, *except* when I looked at my register that
check was marked 'R'. WTF?? I went through my [paper] statements and I,
in fact, cannot find an entry that would correspond to that check actually
being cashed. And now I don't know what to do.

This also touches on the fact that I don't know exactly what happens when
Wachovia sends off a check for an online payment. I know that if I do that
with a handwritten check, *nothing* happens: if the payee mails me the
check back I can just destroy it and void the transaction, no harm no foul.
But I think I'm going to be in a bit of trouble if I try to do that with
this here Wachovia-issued check: I assume that I *cannot* just destroy the
check and void the transaction.... But what should I do with the check?

AND: what should I do about my register. Will things still balance if I
[somehow] cancel out that transaction, or will that now put me $900 out of
kilter with the online balance or something?

I was *so* close to believing that I had managed to get past the
online-reconcile debacle and now this... Thanks!!

/Bernie
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--

Posted by John Pollard on May 12, 2007, 8:36 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Bernie Cosell wrote:
> This with Q2006 on XP/Pro: and some background. A while
> back [like 2 yrs ago or something -- likely just when I
> was first installing q2006 or the likely], I VERY
> mistakenly and unintentionally turned "online reconcile"
> instead of the "paper" reconcile I've been using for
> forever now. When they say it is hard to "go back" once
> you do online, they *MEAN*IT*. It totally screwed up my
> register and I pretty much have never been able to get
> things sorted out again [I didn't figure out what the
> problem was [hadn't even *occurred* to me that it was
> online-reconcile!] until I'd run off the end of my many
> backups. sigh]. Anyhow, after a lot of screwing around
> trying to get things working from "paper" again, I
> eventually kind of gave up, let Quicken put in a fake
> "balance adjustment" entry and kind of got back to
> balancing my acct [against the paper docs again]. The
> 'adjustment' came because I *KNOW* that several very old
> transactions had been carried forward in my register as
> having never been cashed and I really tried to remember
> what they are [basically solving the knapsack
> problem..:o)] to get the damn thing to balance, and just
> gave up.
>
> Anyhow, I was pretty sure things were OK except about a
> month ago I got a letter from someone I had made an
> online payment to last October: they had misplaced the
> check that Wachovia had mailed them, and were afraid to
> try cashing it now so they were returning it and asking
> me to send them a replacement. That'd be fine, *except*
> when I looked at my register that check was marked 'R'.
> WTF?? I went through my [paper] statements and I, in
> fact, cannot find an entry that would correspond to that
> check actually being cashed. And now I don't know what to
> do.
>
> This also touches on the fact that I don't know exactly
> what happens when Wachovia sends off a check for an
> online payment. I know that if I do that with a
> handwritten check, *nothing* happens: if the payee mails
> me the check back I can just destroy it and void the
> transaction, no harm no foul. But I think I'm going to be
> in a bit of trouble if I try to do that with this here
> Wachovia-issued check: I assume that I *cannot* just
> destroy the check and void the transaction.... But what
> should I do with the check?

I have no underlying problem comparable to yours; I have never,
and will never, reconcile to an online balance.

But I did have an online billpay check sent to a payee by
accident (I'm pretty sure I triggered it, I just can't find the
evidence). The payee called me and told me that I had paid them
twice ... what would I like them to do. I asked them to return
the check to me. I then emailed BofA (my online billpayor) and
asked them what to do. They said, "no problem; we'll reverse
the charge in your account." Only point: the billpayor should
be happy to work with you.

In your case, if the check is still good, and if you still owe
them the money; your billpayor should be happy to let the payee
cash the check. If the check isn't still good, just issue
another.

> AND: what should I do about my register. Will things
> still balance if I [somehow] cancel out that transaction,
> or will that now put me $900 out of kilter with the
> online balance or something?

You have already reconciled a check that did not clear; nothing
can be right about that. Even if the payee can still cash the
check, that check can not possibly clear the bank in the
statement period for which you already reconciled it.

Personally, I would unreconcile every transaction in my account
(using Find/Replace), and I would note my most recent paper
statement (real-world) balance/date. If that old check was no
longer valid, I would delete that old never-cashed check
transaction (if it is still valid, you can leave it, it won't
appear in any "previous" statement, so it should not be
pertinent to a re-reconcile). I would change my reconcile to a
"paper statement", and re-reconcile all previous transactions
through the most recent known paper statement balance date.
Depending on how many statements there were for the account, and
how anal I was, I would either enter one manual adjustment with
whatever date suited ... or I would discover when any statement
imbalance occurred and enter my adjustment there.

Just one person's opinion; I think other users may offer better.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup




Posted by Bernie Cosell on May 13, 2007, 7:55 am
Please log in for more thread options

} Bernie Cosell wrote:
} > This with Q2006 on XP/Pro: and some background. A while
} > back [like 2 yrs ago or something -- likely just when I
} > was first installing q2006 or the likely], I VERY
} > mistakenly and unintentionally turned "online reconcile"
} > instead of the "paper" reconcile ...

} I have no underlying problem comparable to yours; I have never,
} and will never, reconcile to an online balance.

Me, too: I did it entirely by accident... sigh..


} ... I asked them to return
} the check to me. I then emailed BofA (my online billpayor) and
} asked them what to do. They said, "no problem; we'll reverse
} the charge in your account."

OK, that mostly confirms what I thought: two points here. First, unlike
with a normal check, *do*not* just void the transaction and destroy the
check, and second, the money really is debited from your account when they
issue the check, *NOT* when they cash it. [which leads to the question:
where _is_ that money. It apparently is not still in my account [earning
interest, propping up my average-daily-balance, whatever] and the payee
doesn't have it... Sounds like the traveler's-check-deal: the banks get to
use my money during the 'float'...

I'll contact wachovia... thanks!

} > AND: what should I do about my register. Will things
} > still balance if I [somehow] cancel out that transaction,
} > or will that now put me $900 out of kilter with the
} > online balance or something?
}
} You have already reconciled a check that did not clear; nothing
} can be right about that.

I know.. UGH!


} Personally, I would unreconcile every transaction in my account
} (using Find/Replace), and I would note my most recent paper
} statement (real-world) balance/date. If that old check was no
} longer valid, I would delete that old never-cashed check
} transaction (if it is still valid, you can leave it, it won't
} appear in any "previous" statement, so it should not be
} pertinent to a re-reconcile). I would change my reconcile to a
} "paper statement", and re-reconcile all previous transactions
} through the most recent known paper statement balance date.
} Depending on how many statements there were for the account, and
} how anal I was, I would either enter one manual adjustment with
} whatever date suited ... or I would discover when any statement
} imbalance occurred and enter my adjustment there.

OK, I think can do the same thing, but less drastically, [because I'll have
something like 2.5 yrs of transactions popping up if I un-reconcile] by
doing three things:
1) call wachovia to cancel the transaction,
2) "void" [or delete or whatever] the bogusly reconciled
transaction, and
3) reconcile the account against the most recent paper
statement [which arrived just a few days ago], and
enter a balance-correction transaction against the paper
statement's balance.

Thanks!! /bernie


--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--

Posted by L on May 14, 2007, 1:42 pm
Please log in for more thread options
>
> } Bernie Cosell wrote:
> } > This with Q2006 on XP/Pro: and some background. A while
> } > back [like 2 yrs ago or something -- likely just when I
> } > was first installing q2006 or the likely], I VERY
> } > mistakenly and unintentionally turned "online reconcile"
> } > instead of the "paper" reconcile ...
>
> } I have no underlying problem comparable to yours; I have never,
> } and will never, reconcile to an online balance.
>
> Me, too: I did it entirely by accident... sigh..
>
>
> } ... I asked them to return
> } the check to me. I then emailed BofA (my online billpayor) and
> } asked them what to do. They said, "no problem; we'll reverse
> } the charge in your account."
>
> OK, that mostly confirms what I thought: two points here. First, unlike
> with a normal check, *do*not* just void the transaction and destroy the
> check, and second, the money really is debited from your account when they
> issue the check, *NOT* when they cash it.

Ummm - no. Not unless your vendor has a 'special' arrangement with Wachovia
for EFT transfer.

Checks issued to vendors are debited when cashed. I can attest to that. My
bank is Wachovia, and many times online transactions have been listed as
'not cleared' for longer than I think they should. You can check if an
online payment was cashed either through Quicken, if you are paying for
one-step-update access, or through the Wachovia bill management screen, if
you initiated payment directly through Wachovia.

> [which leads to the question:
> where _is_ that money. It apparently is not still in my account [earning
> interest, propping up my average-daily-balance, whatever]

Sure it is!

> and the payee
> doesn't have it... Sounds like the traveler's-check-deal: the banks get
> to
> use my money during the 'float'...

If the payee doesn't have it, it was not debited.
The reason it LOOKS like it was debited from your account, is that you
reconciled to an online balance, marked all transactions as cleared, and let
Quicken make a corresponding 'balance adjustment'.

>
> I'll contact wachovia... thanks!
>
> } > AND: what should I do about my register. Will things
> } > still balance if I [somehow] cancel out that transaction,
> } > or will that now put me $900 out of kilter with the
> } > online balance or something?
> }
> } You have already reconciled a check that did not clear; nothing
> } can be right about that.
>
> I know.. UGH!
>
>
> } Personally, I would unreconcile every transaction in my account
> } (using Find/Replace), and I would note my most recent paper
> } statement (real-world) balance/date. If that old check was no
> } longer valid, I would delete that old never-cashed check
> } transaction (if it is still valid, you can leave it, it won't
> } appear in any "previous" statement, so it should not be
> } pertinent to a re-reconcile). I would change my reconcile to a
> } "paper statement", and re-reconcile all previous transactions
> } through the most recent known paper statement balance date.
> } Depending on how many statements there were for the account, and
> } how anal I was, I would either enter one manual adjustment with
> } whatever date suited ... or I would discover when any statement
> } imbalance occurred and enter my adjustment there.

This is what I would do as well.

>
> OK, I think can do the same thing, but less drastically, [because I'll
> have
> something like 2.5 yrs of transactions popping up if I un-reconcile] by
> doing three things:
> 1) call wachovia to cancel the transaction,
> 2) "void" [or delete or whatever] the bogusly reconciled
> transaction, and
> 3) reconcile the account against the most recent paper
> statement [which arrived just a few days ago], and
> enter a balance-correction transaction against the paper
> statement's balance.

Wouldn't be the same, as you have already ascertained, but would suffice I
suppose if you are not overly concerned with where your online balance and
paper statements differ.



Posted by Bernie Cosell on May 14, 2007, 1:11 pm
Please log in for more thread options

}... about a month ago I got a
} letter from someone I had made an online payment to last October: they had
} misplaced the check that Wachovia had mailed them, and were afraid to try
} cashing it now so they were returning it and asking me to send them a
} replacement. That'd be fine, *except* when I looked at my register that
} check was marked 'R'. WTF?? I went through my [paper] statements and I,
} in fact, cannot find an entry that would correspond to that check actually
} being cashed. And now I don't know what to do.

Followup: I've gotten off the phone with Wachovia and everything has been
sorted out. What I didn't know is that when Wachovia prints "this check is
only valid for 90 days", they *MEAN*IT*. What happened [now that was told
to look in the right place in my register] is that my account was
*credited* for the amount of that check [about 94 days after it was
issued!], and so the 'R' is correct: both the check and the credit were
reconciled, the net on my acct was $0, and that's just right.

SO: all I need to do is reissue the payment and things will be just as they
should be.

I now understand (more clearly) that the funds for online payments are
immediately debited [and so the bank gets the 'float', same as with
travelers's checks!] and I also understand that Wachovia, at least, is dead
serious about the 90-days drop-dead-timer.

BUT: it does bring up a question I don't exactly understand: what's the
difference between 'c' and 'R' for online payments? It is possible that
that check went from 'c' to 'R' when the credit happened [I don't exactly
remember and can't find it in my paper statements].

And more generally: it is at all possible to find out from Quicken exactly
when an online payment was "cashed" -- from what I can see, the only dates
I can find in my check register on the processing dates for the online
payment (by clicking 'status'), but I can't find the *actual*date* that the
payment happened [or indeed, whether it happened at all]. Is that info
kicking around someplace?

Thanks!
/Bernie
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--

Similar ThreadsPosted
Missed Online Payment May 11, 2007, 11:20 am
Online payment and Citibank May 13, 2007, 5:52 pm
Repeating online payment QD07 September 24, 2006, 5:42 pm
Undoing a USmailed online payment December 7, 2007, 1:53 pm
UNDO Reconciled items July 17, 2006, 8:55 pm
Purging reconciled checks February 20, 2007, 10:00 pm
Reconciled transaction disappears February 27, 2007, 1:45 pm
Delete a lot of reconciled entries at once? Urgently needed answer! July 17, 2006, 5:19 pm
bill payment June 15, 2006, 9:39 am
Can't void a payment August 25, 2008, 9:10 pm

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
This site is not affiliated with Intuit - makers of Quickbooks and Quicken software
This site is not affiliated with Sage Software - makers of Peachtree accounting software
XML SitemapXML Sitemap