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Subject Author Date
Phatom Security Stewart Berman 01-10-2007
Posted by Stewart Berman on January 10, 2007, 12:26 am
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I have a security in one account that I sold months ago but still
shows up in the account with 0 Shares. I tried going into the
security list and marking it hidden but it still shows up. The watch
list box is not checked. How do I stop this security from showing up?

Posted by R. C. White on January 10, 2007, 9:47 am
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Hi, Stewart.

Quicken probably thinks you still have some tiny fraction of a share because
of rounding of prior transactions. It happens often.

A quick example: You buy 100 shares; it splits 4-3, so you are entitled to
133.3333333 shares. You get 33 new shares, plus cash for .333 fractional
shares. You record the sale of .333 shares - and Q thinks you still have
133.00033333 shares left. Then you sell all your stock and record the sale
of 133 shares. Q thinks you still have .00033333 shares, so it continues to
show the security. And if the stock is worth $10 per share today, your net
worth also includes $0.033333 for this phantom security.

The best way to handle this - now and in the future - is to never let Q
compute the number of shares. Always enter transactions in even shares (to
no more than 3 decimal places, even for mutual funds) and even pennies for
total dollar amounts. It's OK to have tiny fractions in per-share prices,
because they are seldom of long-term significance except as history. But
always record total dollars to the nearest penny, and record stocks to the
nearest whole share (or .000).

Go back and check all your transactions for this security, working
chronologically. For any transaction (split, spin-off, etc.) that did not
involve only whole shares, delete the transaction and enter it again,
letting any rounding go to price per share, not total dollars or total
shares. For any sales, be sure to use the option to "select lots" and let Q
select the number of shares to zero out each lot.

Or use the feature added to Quicken's recent versions, in the Enter
Transactions list, to Adjust Share Balance to zero. I've never used this,
but I hear that it works well.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Currently running Vista Ultimate x64)

>I have a security in one account that I sold months ago but still
> shows up in the account with 0 Shares. I tried going into the
> security list and marking it hidden but it still shows up. The watch
> list box is not checked. How do I stop this security from showing up?


Posted by Stewart Berman on February 17, 2007, 10:30 pm
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It does seem to be connected to a split but I extracted a security
report and the fractions don't go beyond 0.1 (tenths). The split was
in two parts: 20 to 1 and then 1 to 2. The starting position was 3533
shares. At the end there were 352 shares and a sale of 1.3 shares for
the residual.

if I click on the + to the left of the stock in the Portfolio view it
doesn't show any lots. If there was a fractional share somewhere is
would be associated with a lot.

There doesn't seem to be any way to get a transaction report that
shows the number of shares in the account after each transaction.


>Hi, Stewart.
>
>Quicken probably thinks you still have some tiny fraction of a share because
>of rounding of prior transactions. It happens often.
>
>A quick example: You buy 100 shares; it splits 4-3, so you are entitled to
>133.3333333 shares. You get 33 new shares, plus cash for .333 fractional
>shares. You record the sale of .333 shares - and Q thinks you still have
>133.00033333 shares left. Then you sell all your stock and record the sale
>of 133 shares. Q thinks you still have .00033333 shares, so it continues to
>show the security. And if the stock is worth $10 per share today, your net
>worth also includes $0.033333 for this phantom security.
>
>The best way to handle this - now and in the future - is to never let Q
>compute the number of shares. Always enter transactions in even shares (to
>no more than 3 decimal places, even for mutual funds) and even pennies for
>total dollar amounts. It's OK to have tiny fractions in per-share prices,
>because they are seldom of long-term significance except as history. But
>always record total dollars to the nearest penny, and record stocks to the
>nearest whole share (or .000).
>
>Go back and check all your transactions for this security, working
>chronologically. For any transaction (split, spin-off, etc.) that did not
>involve only whole shares, delete the transaction and enter it again,
>letting any rounding go to price per share, not total dollars or total
>shares. For any sales, be sure to use the option to "select lots" and let Q
>select the number of shares to zero out each lot.
>
>Or use the feature added to Quicken's recent versions, in the Enter
>Transactions list, to Adjust Share Balance to zero. I've never used this,
>but I hear that it works well.
>
>RC


Posted by R. C. White on February 18, 2007, 10:30 pm
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Hi, Stewart.

Quicken often keeps calculation results internally to several more decimal
places than it shows onscreen or in reports. Also, computers don't really
think in decimals, anyhow, but in binary or hexadecimal numbers. This often
involves hex fractions even when the decimal numbers come out even - and
vice versa.

If I understand what you said, then you started with 3533 shares. There was
a reverse split where you got 1 share for each 20 you owned, giving you
3533/20 = 176.65 Then there was a 2-for-1 split, bringing you back up to
353.3 shares. You sold 1.3 shares and have 352 shares left.

Your best bet is still as I said in my first reply: Go back and re-record
the transactions. Be sure you enter only even dollars and cents, and whole
shares. (Did they really issue you .65 shares after the 1-for-20 reverse
split?)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Currently running Vista Ultimate x64)

> It does seem to be connected to a split but I extracted a security
> report and the fractions don't go beyond 0.1 (tenths). The split was
> in two parts: 20 to 1 and then 1 to 2. The starting position was 3533
> shares. At the end there were 352 shares and a sale of 1.3 shares for
> the residual.
>
> if I click on the + to the left of the stock in the Portfolio view it
> doesn't show any lots. If there was a fractional share somewhere is
> would be associated with a lot.
>
> There doesn't seem to be any way to get a transaction report that
> shows the number of shares in the account after each transaction.
>
>
>>Hi, Stewart.
>>
>>Quicken probably thinks you still have some tiny fraction of a share
>>because
>>of rounding of prior transactions. It happens often.
>>
>>A quick example: You buy 100 shares; it splits 4-3, so you are entitled
>>to
>>133.3333333 shares. You get 33 new shares, plus cash for .333 fractional
>>shares. You record the sale of .333 shares - and Q thinks you still have
>>133.00033333 shares left. Then you sell all your stock and record the
>>sale
>>of 133 shares. Q thinks you still have .00033333 shares, so it continues
>>to
>>show the security. And if the stock is worth $10 per share today, your
>>net
>>worth also includes $0.033333 for this phantom security.
>>
>>The best way to handle this - now and in the future - is to never let Q
>>compute the number of shares. Always enter transactions in even shares
>>(to
>>no more than 3 decimal places, even for mutual funds) and even pennies for
>>total dollar amounts. It's OK to have tiny fractions in per-share prices,
>>because they are seldom of long-term significance except as history. But
>>always record total dollars to the nearest penny, and record stocks to the
>>nearest whole share (or .000).
>>
>>Go back and check all your transactions for this security, working
>>chronologically. For any transaction (split, spin-off, etc.) that did not
>>involve only whole shares, delete the transaction and enter it again,
>>letting any rounding go to price per share, not total dollars or total
>>shares. For any sales, be sure to use the option to "select lots" and let
>>Q
>>select the number of shares to zero out each lot.
>>
>>Or use the feature added to Quicken's recent versions, in the Enter
>>Transactions list, to Adjust Share Balance to zero. I've never used this,
>>but I hear that it works well.
>>
>>RC


Posted by Stewart Berman on February 19, 2007, 3:30 pm
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The way the process is viewed is:

The 20 to 1 reverse split is applied giving 176 full shares and a
residual of 13 original shares. This is followed by the 2 to 1
forward split which gives 352 full shares. The residuals are
converted into 1.3 new shares. Quicken then creates a sell
transaction for the 1.3 shares

Quicken also shows a purchase of 13 pseudo shares under a temporary
name at a cost of $0.00 and then a sell of the 13 pseudo shares at the
price the company defined for leftover shares.

I am not sure how to handle replacing the split transaction. Is it:
        Sell 13 shares for a total of $X (residuals)
        Sell 3520 shares for a total of $Y
        Buy 352 shares for a total of $Y

This is a non taxable account so I don't have to worry about the
realizing a gain or loss on the transactions or a change of holding
period. What else (i.e. ROI) is likely to be affected by this?


>Hi, Stewart.
>
>Quicken often keeps calculation results internally to several more decimal
>places than it shows onscreen or in reports. Also, computers don't really
>think in decimals, anyhow, but in binary or hexadecimal numbers. This often
>involves hex fractions even when the decimal numbers come out even - and
>vice versa.
>
>If I understand what you said, then you started with 3533 shares. There was
>a reverse split where you got 1 share for each 20 you owned, giving you
>3533/20 = 176.65 Then there was a 2-for-1 split, bringing you back up to
>353.3 shares. You sold 1.3 shares and have 352 shares left.
>
>Your best bet is still as I said in my first reply: Go back and re-record
>the transactions. Be sure you enter only even dollars and cents, and whole
>shares. (Did they really issue you .65 shares after the 1-for-20 reverse
>split?)
>
>RC


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