Question about Quicken treatment of "business" investment accounts

Posted by John Pollard on June 13, 2009, 8:15 pm

Please log in for more thread options

Can anyone with Q2005, Q2006, Q2007 or Q2008 Home & Business, volunteer to
fill me in on Quicken's treatment of "business investment accounts"?

1.) Do any of the named versions of Quicken have such a thing as a
"business investment account"?

2.) If yes to question 1, can you fill me in on how Quicken handles that
account? For example: do "business reports" accurately treat the account?
Are any Quicken reports that "should" deal with a "business investment"
account, unable to do so? Etc.

3.) Can anyone tell me why a Quicken user would need a "business
investment" account? Can you tell me why a normal,
non-specifically-business investment account would be inadequate for a
Quicken H&B user?

--

John Pollard

Posted by Laura on June 13, 2009, 8:50 pm

Please log in for more thread options

Can you define "business investment account"?

I have 2008 H&B. When I go to create a new account my options are "Cash
Flow", "Investment", "Property & Debt" and "Business". Under Business there
is no option for "business investment account". The options under business
are checking, savings, cash, house, vehicle, asset, liability,
Invoices/Receivables and Bills/Payables.

--
Laura

> Can anyone with Q2005, Q2006, Q2007 or Q2008 Home & Business, volunteer to

> fill me in on Quicken's treatment of "business investment accounts"?

> 1.) Do any of the named versions of Quicken have such a thing as a

> "business investment account"?

> 2.) If yes to question 1, can you fill me in on how Quicken handles that

> account? For example: do "business reports" accurately treat the account?

> Are any Quicken reports that "should" deal with a "business investment"

> account, unable to do so? Etc.

> 3.) Can anyone tell me why a Quicken user would need a "business

> investment" account? Can you tell me why a normal,

> non-specifically-business investment account would be inadequate for a

> Quicken H&B user?

> --

> John Pollard

Posted by John Pollard on June 13, 2009, 10:05 pm

Please log in for more thread options

Thanks for replying Laura.

Here's what I'm trying to determine:

1) When did Quicken first offer the ability to designate an account as a
"business investment" account. No such capability existed in Q2004 H&B,
for example.

In Q2009 RPM (and I will bet, in Q2009 H&B), when setting up a new
account, during the setup process, the user is offered the option to
designate the account as being for: "personal transactions", "business
transactions", (or in the case of Q2009 Rental Property Manager), the
option to designate the account as being for "Rental Property
Transactions".

2.) Why would there be any need to designate a Quicken account as a
"business investment" account. [Point being: is there any legitimate use
of Quicken Home & Business that would require, or even benefit from, the
ability to designate an investment account as being for "business"?

It is my belief that a "business" designation for investment accounts in
Quicken are basically meaningless differentiations. I'd like someone to
prove me wrong.

What I am looking for is: first, someone to tell me when Quicken first
offered "business" investment accounts; and second; why a Quicken user
would have any reason to distinguish a "business" investment account from
a non-business investment account (remembering that - at least in Q2004
H&B, there was no such thing as a "business investment" account.

Why would Intuit believe it necessary to provide a "business" investment
account?

Laura wrote:

> Can you define "business investment account"?

> I have 2008 H&B. When I go to create a new account my options are

> "Cash Flow", "Investment", "Property & Debt" and "Business". Under

> Business there is no option for "business investment account". The

> options under business are checking, savings, cash, house, vehicle,

> asset, liability, Invoices/Receivables and Bills/Payables.

>> Can anyone with Q2005, Q2006, Q2007 or Q2008 Home & Business,

>> volunteer to fill me in on Quicken's treatment of "business

>> investment accounts"? 1.) Do any of the named versions of Quicken have

>> such a thing as a

>> "business investment account"?

>> 2.) If yes to question 1, can you fill me in on how Quicken handles

>> that account? For example: do "business reports" accurately treat

>> the account? Are any Quicken reports that "should" deal with a

>> "business investment" account, unable to do so? Etc.

>> 3.) Can anyone tell me why a Quicken user would need a "business

>> investment" account? Can you tell me why a normal,

>> non-specifically-business investment account would be inadequate for

>> a Quicken H&B user?

>> --

>> John Pollard

--

John Pollard

Posted by Laura on June 14, 2009, 8:03 am

Please log in for more thread options

> Thanks for replying Laura.

> Here's what I'm trying to determine:

> 1) When did Quicken first offer the ability to designate an account as a

> "business investment" account. No such capability existed in Q2004 H&B,

> for example.

As I indicated last night, it does not exist in 2008 H&B either. Have you
seen it in 2009 or are you just speculated on its existance?

> In Q2009 RPM (and I will bet, in Q2009 H&B), when setting up a new

> account, during the setup process, the user is offered the option to

> designate the account as being for: "personal transactions", "business

> transactions", (or in the case of Q2009 Rental Property Manager), the

> option to designate the account as being for "Rental Property

> Transactions".

In RPM, it sounds like they are offering you the option for personal RE vs
business RE. That's understandable. Property can be either Personal or
business so that makes sense.

You don't have that same option in HB. As I posted last night your options
of account types are "Cash Flow", "Investment", "Property & Debt" and
"Business". Given those options the Investment option is not being
designated as personal or business in nature in H&B.

> 2.) Why would there be any need to designate a Quicken account as a

> "business investment" account. [Point being: is there any legitimate use

> of Quicken Home & Business that would require, or even benefit from, the

> ability to designate an investment account as being for "business"?

Actually I can think of a legitmate use of a "business investment" account.
I have a client, a Condo association, that has money in a Merrill Lynch
account as part of their reserve funds. Part of the money is in CDs and part
is in a Money Market fund. I don't see any reason why they could not have
put some of the money into stocks or bonds. These would certainly fall into
the investment type of account.

Of course, being a real business a company like that would probably never
use Quicken to track their business expenses. They certainly should not be
mixing it with personal transactions.

> It is my belief that a "business" designation for investment accounts in

> Quicken are basically meaningless differentiations. I'd like someone to

> prove me wrong.

> What I am looking for is: first, someone to tell me when Quicken first

> offered "business" investment accounts; and second; why a Quicken user

> would have any reason to distinguish a "business" investment account from

> a non-business investment account (remembering that - at least in Q2004

> H&B, there was no such thing as a "business investment" account.

> Why would Intuit believe it necessary to provide a "business" investment

> account?

> Laura wrote:

>> Can you define "business investment account"?

>> I have 2008 H&B. When I go to create a new account my options are

>> "Cash Flow", "Investment", "Property & Debt" and "Business". Under

>> Business there is no option for "business investment account". The

>> options under business are checking, savings, cash, house, vehicle,

>> asset, liability, Invoices/Receivables and Bills/Payables.

>>> Can anyone with Q2005, Q2006, Q2007 or Q2008 Home & Business,

>>> volunteer to fill me in on Quicken's treatment of "business

>>> investment accounts"? 1.) Do any of the named versions of Quicken have

>>> such a thing as a

>>> "business investment account"?

>>>

>>> 2.) If yes to question 1, can you fill me in on how Quicken handles

>>> that account? For example: do "business reports" accurately treat

>>> the account? Are any Quicken reports that "should" deal with a

>>> "business investment" account, unable to do so? Etc.

>>>

>>> 3.) Can anyone tell me why a Quicken user would need a "business

>>> investment" account? Can you tell me why a normal,

>>> non-specifically-business investment account would be inadequate for

>>> a Quicken H&B user?

>>>

>>> --

>>>

>>> John Pollard

> --

> John Pollard

Posted by John Pollard on June 14, 2009, 9:38 am

Please log in for more thread options

Laura wrote:

>> Thanks for replying Laura.

>> Here's what I'm trying to determine:

>> 1) When did Quicken first offer the ability to designate an account

>> as a "business investment" account. No such capability existed in

>> Q2004 H&B, for example.

> As I indicated last night, it does not exist in 2008 H&B either. Have

> you seen it in 2009 or are you just speculated on its existance?

Yes, I have seen it. The account setup process in Q2009 RPM allows the
user to designate any account as being for "personal", "business", or
"rental property". I'm reasonably sure the H&B version doesn't allow the
"rental property" option, and that Premier and Deluxe do not all the
"business" or "rental property" options.

>> In Q2009 RPM (and I will bet, in Q2009 H&B), when setting up a new

>> account, during the setup process, the user is offered the option to

>> designate the account as being for: "personal transactions",

>> "business transactions", (or in the case of Q2009 Rental Property

>> Manager), the option to designate the account as being for "Rental

>> Property Transactions".

> In RPM, it sounds like they are offering you the option for personal

> RE vs business RE. That's understandable. Property can be either

> Personal or business so that makes sense.

> You don't have that same option in HB. As I posted last night your

> options of account types are "Cash Flow", "Investment", "Property &

> Debt" and "Business". Given those options the Investment option is

> not being designated as personal or business in nature in H&B.

Thanks, that is what I thought. Q2009 is the first Quicken version to
permit the creation of "business investment" accounts.

>> 2.) Why would there be any need to designate a Quicken account as a

>> "business investment" account. [Point being: is there any

>> legitimate use of Quicken Home & Business that would require, or

>> even benefit from, the ability to designate an investment account as

>> being for "business"?

> Actually I can think of a legitmate use of a "business investment"

> account. I have a client, a Condo association, that has money in a

> Merrill Lynch account as part of their reserve funds. Part of the

> money is in CDs and part is in a Money Market fund. I don't see any

> reason why they could not have put some of the money into stocks or

> bonds. These would certainly fall into the investment type of account.

I understand that, but it's not quite what I'm asking about.

If one had an investment account that pertained to their business, they
could (and should) limit its contents to transactions that pertained to
the business. And they could name the account in such a way as to
indicate that it held assets related to the business. It seems to me that
Quicken users must have been dealing with this for as long as Quicken has
been around ... and I don't recall a single request to have Quicken
designate such an account as a "business investment" account.

My question is: what special treatment would a business investment require
that would necessitate its being designated as a "business" account by
Quicken? Does any legitimate Quicken "business" get different treatment
of "business" investments, as opposed to "personal" investments? [I'm
assuming Quicken is not intended for Corporations, for example.] What
have Quicken H&B users needed for their business investment accounts all
these years, that they have not had? How have Quicken H&B users handled
whatever limitations not having a "business investment" account
designation imposed? What workarounds have they had to employ?

Consider: Would (should) a Quicken business investment account be accorded
different tax treatment than a Quicken personal investment account?

[To put some perspective on this: when a Q2009 investment account is
designated as a "business" account, it appears (by default) in the
"Business" group of accounts, along with accounts like customer invoice
accounts and sales tax accounts. A natural grouping perhaps, but Intuit
goofed and did not implement the "business investment" account correctly.
It doesn't show "Holdings" on its "Overview" tab; it can be selected to
appear in a Portfolio view ... but it doesn't actually appear; and it is
unavailable for some reports like Schedule D and Capital Gains.
My belief is that these problems can be overcome by either not designating
the investment account as a "business" account (even though it is for the
business), or changing its "group" to "Investing" instead of "Business".
In other words: the difficulties with a Q2009 "business investment"
account can be avoided by not treating it like a "business" account.
What problems would that workaround pose?]

--

John Pollard