ghost transactions

Posted by John Pollard on January 5, 2007, 10:39 pm

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Christopher Glaeser wrote:

>> When Tod replied to the post you refer to here, he was

>> implying that there were no duplicate transactions

>> downloaded: those duplicate transactions are almost

>> always created by user error. He encouraged the op to

>> search the forums; where the user would see the hundreds

>> of responses that were posted there explaining how the

>> problem is caused, how to fix the existing "errors", and

>> how to prevent the problem from occurring in the future.

>> (I suggest also searching the forums for "transfer

>> transactions" and "transfer duplicate".)

> I did search the forum, and I tried my best to read past

> the numerous search-the-forum responses, but I never came

> across any solutions. It would be most helpful if you

> could post a link to the solution.

I am willing to help discover if you are experiencing a
different problem than the one you suggest many others are
experiencing ... but not so willing to repeat a solution to a
user problem that has been posted hundreds of times. I found
*many* answers to the problem I am referring to using the search
criteria I proposed. If that is your problem, you need to read
the results of your search - I absolutely guarantee you that the
solution to that problem has been posted MANY times.

You have not provided any additional information to help make
the determination, so ....

1.) I'm not clear on what version of Quicken you are using;
please clarify the version/year and release.

(I don't get that you are using Q2007, but if you are; please
note if you are using Express Web Connect to download.)

2.) Are the transactions you are having a problem with,
"transfer" transactions? Are they transactions that involve the
"movement" ("transfer", "payment", etc.) of funds from one of
your Quicken accounts to another of your Quicken accounts?

3.) Do you use "Accept All" to accept your downloaded
transactions?

4.) Do you visually examine your downloaded transactions while
they are in the "Accept transactions into register" window
(before you Accept them)? If so: do you see two downloaded
transactions for the same real-world transaction in that window?
If you don't examine your downloaded transactions before you
"Accept" them: shame on you.

>> Many users do experience a problem with duplicate

>> transactions, but those duplicates are created by the

>> users by incorrectly processing transfer transactions

>> ... not by a "defect" at BofA or in Quicken.

> I'm a long-time BofA and Quicken customer, and I may very

> well be doing something wrong, and I will certainly

> review the link to any solutions posted, but that said,

> FWIW, I should note that I first began observing this

> problem on two different computers with two entirely

> different sets of BofA credit card and checking accounts

> at the same time period that BofA technical support says

> the defect first appeared. In addition, BofA technical

> support says they field many questions regarding this

> problem, claim that Intuit is aware of the problem, have

> no date when the problem will be resolved, and suggest

> deleting the duplicate transactions as a workaround until

> a patch is released.

BofA may be right ... and they may be wrong. For purposes of
trying to identify what the real problem is: nothing you have
said suggests that they have anything useful to offer.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
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Posted by Christopher Glaeser on January 6, 2007, 9:06 pm

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> 1.) I'm not clear on what version of Quicken you are using;

> please clarify the version/year and release.

Quicken 2006 Release QA 5 (and other versions and releases as well).

> 2.) Are the transactions you are having a problem with,

> "transfer" transactions?

No.

> Are they transactions that involve the

> "movement" ("transfer", "payment", etc.) of funds from one of

> your Quicken accounts to another of your Quicken accounts?

Yes and no. The duplicate transactions occur for both credit card purchases
and payments. Paying the credit card company each month is done via a
Quicken checking account on-line payment, so I'm guessing this is a yes to
your question, but the duplicates also occur randomly for credit card
purchases, which are not transfers or payments.

> 3.) Do you use "Accept All" to accept your downloaded

> transactions?

The duplicates appear in the "Accept transactions into register" window
prior to any "Accept All" or "Accept" action. The dates of the duplicate
transactions are different by one day. For example, a credit card purchase
may appear on 1/3/07 and also on 1/4/07 (I'm guessing these are the credit
card transaction date/posting date).

> 4.) Do you visually examine your downloaded transactions while

> they are in the "Accept transactions into register" window

> (before you Accept them)? If so: do you see two downloaded

> transactions for the same real-world transaction in that window?

> If you don't examine your downloaded transactions before you

> "Accept" them: shame on you.

Yes, I examine them before accepting them, but it's not easy to determine
which credit card transactions are a) real (e.g. purchasing the same amount
from the same store two days in a row; which does happen on ocassion), b)
the vendor double billed us (also rare, but sometimes happens) or c) Quicken
duplicate that should be deleted.

Best,
Christopher

Posted by John Pollard on January 7, 2007, 12:18 am

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Christopher Glaeser wrote:

>> 1.) I'm not clear on what version of Quicken you are

>> using; please clarify the version/year and release.

> Quicken 2006 Release QA 5 (and other versions and

> releases as well).

>> 2.) Are the transactions you are having a problem with,

>> "transfer" transactions?

> No.

>> Are they transactions that involve the

>> "movement" ("transfer", "payment", etc.) of funds from

>> one of your Quicken accounts to another of your Quicken

>> accounts?

> Yes and no. The duplicate transactions occur for both

> credit card purchases and payments. Paying the credit

> card company each month is done via a Quicken checking

> account on-line payment, so I'm guessing this is a yes to

> your question, but the duplicates also occur randomly for

> credit card purchases, which are not transfers or

> payments.

>> 3.) Do you use "Accept All" to accept your downloaded

>> transactions?

> The duplicates appear in the "Accept transactions into

> register" window prior to any "Accept All" or "Accept"

> action. The dates of the duplicate transactions are

> different by one day. For example, a credit card

> purchase may appear on 1/3/07 and also on 1/4/07 (I'm

> guessing these are the credit card transaction

> date/posting date).

>> 4.) Do you visually examine your downloaded transactions

>> while they are in the "Accept transactions into

>> register" window (before you Accept them)? If so: do

>> you see two downloaded transactions for the same

>> real-world transaction in that window? If you don't

>> examine your downloaded transactions before you "Accept"

>> them: shame on you.

> Yes, I examine them before accepting them, but it's not

> easy to determine which credit card transactions are a)

> real (e.g. purchasing the same amount from the same store

> two days in a row; which does happen on ocassion), b) the

> vendor double billed us (also rare, but sometimes

> happens) or c) Quicken duplicate that should be deleted.

Based on your answers, you don't have the same problem I was
referring to. The problem I was referring to is always
associated with "transfer" transactions.

The reason for the confusion was that you incorrectly identified
your problem with a problem that has been discussed literally
hundreds of times in the Intuit Forums and is typically referred
to there as "duplicate transactions". Indeed, if you carefully
read the op in the thread you posted a link to, you will notice
that the poster was referring to duplicate transactions relating
to "transfers". That problem is probably close to, if not, the
most reported problem in the Quicken forums and is caused by
user error.

To the best of my knowledge, you are the first person to post of
receiving true duplicate downloaded transactions in one download
(identifiable while they are still in the "Accept transactions
into register" window).

If BofA says they have heard a lot of complaints about the same
problem you are describing, I think they are the only ones who
have heard a lot of complaints about it. I think it's more
likely that other users have complained to BofA about the known
user-error ... not realizing it was their user error ... and
BofA has not distinguished the difference between the two
problems. Users often do not describe their problems very
clearly ... and first level tech support personnel are often not
up to the task of making fine distinctions.

If you are up to the task, you can determine for yourself if the
problem is with BofA or with Quicken. Following a download, you
can look in the OFXlog file and see all the data that was
downloaded; if the same transaction was present twice in the
downloaded data, it would be a BofA problem. You would need a
basic ability to interpret HTML type tags (which I, or others,
could offer you assistance to do), but it's a long way from
rocket science.

If you're not up to that, the best I can tell you is to post
your problem in the Intuit Forums "Product Feedback ... " forum
and/or at the Intuit Support site bug report link. But don't
describe it as *the* "duplicate transaction" problem.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
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Posted by Christopher Glaeser on January 8, 2007, 5:32 pm

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> If you are up to the task, you can determine for yourself if the problem

> is with BofA or with Quicken. Following a download, you can look in the

> OFXlog file and see all the data that was downloaded; if the same

> transaction was present twice in the downloaded data, it would be a BofA

> problem.

OK, I'll monitor the OFXlog files. The duplicate transactions have
different dates and are sent in different Updates (we update daily), so I'm
guessing I must save multiple OFXlog files and then compare them.

Best,
Christopher

Posted by John Pollard on January 8, 2007, 8:57 pm

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Christopher Glaeser wrote:

>> If you are up to the task, you can determine for

>> yourself if the problem is with BofA or with Quicken.

>> Following a download, you can look in the OFXlog file

>> and see all the data that was downloaded; if the same

>> transaction was present twice in the downloaded data, it

>> would be a BofA problem.

> OK, I'll monitor the OFXlog files. The duplicate

> transactions have different dates and are sent in

> different Updates (we update daily), so I'm guessing I

> must save multiple OFXlog files and then compare them.

While I originally understood you to say that you were seeing
the duplicates in your "Accept transactions into register"
window (and my question was asking if there were two of the same
transaction in the same download), it is not material to the
analysis.

Yes; "Save" the OFXlog from one download, then save it again
when you think a subsequent download contains a transaction that
was in the first OFXlog you saved.

When you locate (and assuming you locate) the duplicate
transaction in the second download, pay particular attention to
the <FITID> (Financial Institution Transaction ID) of the two
transactions that appear to be duplicates. From what we mere
mortals have been led to believe; Quicken will not offer up to
the user a transaction whose <FITID> has already been
downloaded.

I can't tell you where the filtering is supposed to take place;
on the Intuit server (so a duplicate would never be downloaded,
or appear in your OFXlog), or in Quicken (meaning it could
appear in more than one download, but still not in more than one
"Accept transactions into register" window); so I don't know
whether seeing the same transaction in two OFXlogs is incorrect
or not (personally, I don't recall ever seeing the same
transaction in two OFXlogs ... but I have never made any serious
attempt to check for it).

I am reasonably certain that Quicken should never offer you the
opportunity to "Accept" a transaction with an <FITID> that has
already been Accepted in the same Quicken file(set) ... no
matter where the filtering takes place.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
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