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Subject Author Date
market value graph is wrong Phil Schuman 09-11-2006
Posted by danbrown on October 2, 2006, 12:11 pm
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Bill wrote:
> danbrown trolled :
> > db
> > former Wells Fargo Audit VP
>
> used to be a vp, now he's a pathetic internet troll. right. and i
> used to be the king of spain.
>
> bill

Used to be king of spain. Now you're an anal-retentive self-important,
blowhard idiot with your head firmly inserted into yourself.

db


Posted by John Pollard on October 2, 2006, 9:21 am
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>> Why don't you try deleting the original transaction and
>> re-entering it?

> Accounting is a record of input and transaction. Deleting is
> not allowed when following accounting standards...

A standard that would prevent someone from producing correct
reports from their financial data would not be much of a
standard.

Quicken is personal financial software, not accounting software;
and we are users of that software, only occasionally, and
coincidentally, accountants.



Posted by R. C. White on October 2, 2006, 12:56 pm
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Hi, KBH.

Bookkeepers are human. Mistakes do occur. And when they are discovered,
they often must be corrected. How?

"Draw a single non-obliterating line through the incorrect entry, write the
correct entry immediately above it, and initial the change."

Those were the instructions that I learned in accounting and auditing
classes in college over 50 years ago. And it still applies today in
manually-kept books and records. In the centuries before computers, we
always kept permanent records in pen and ink (remember those?), never in
pencil, so erasure was impossible - or very nearly impossible. Even "ink
eradicator" and "Wite-out" left tell-tale evidence that a "permanent" entry
had been changed. And these entries were kept on pages in bound books so
that there was no good or easy way to change or remove a single entry from
between those before and after it.

In one's personal records, for one's own use, there was no need to be so
persnickety. But in a company or other organization, where anyone other
than the bookkeeper himself/herself would be relying on the entries, strict
standards were required.

Nowadays, Quicken and other computer programs make it easy to delete an
entry - correct or not - so completely that no one can tell that it was ever
there. That is why I've said several times in this newsgroup that Quicken
is a great program for personal recordkeeping, but NOT for "third-party"
accounting. That's my own terminology for records that are to be relied on
by third parties. "First-party" accounting would be where I keep my own
records for my own information, just as I keep my own checkbook and can make
it as messy as I like because nobody sees it but me. "Second-party"
accounting would be where I keep records for you and nobody relies on the
records but you and me; we must trust each other, but outsiders are not
involved. "Third-party" accounting is where I keep your records and you
present reports based on those to a bank to borrow money, or to a
prospective buyer or investor in your company, or to the IRS as a part of
your tax returns.

For third-party accounting, erasures or deletions should be allowed only
with a clear audit trail. Quicken allows erasures and deletions without
such a trail, so it is not appropriate for keeping records on which third
parties need to rely.

But for my own records for my own use, Quicken is a very good tool. And
sometimes, deletion of an incorrect entry is entirely proper and the best
way to handle an error - or just to change my mind.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(Retired. No longer licensed to practice public accounting.)
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP


>> Why don't you try deleting the original transaction and re-entering it?
>
> Accounting is a record of input and transaction. Deleting is not allowed
> when following accounting standards...


Posted by KBH on October 6, 2006, 12:33 am
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> Hi, KBH.
>
> Bookkeepers are human. Mistakes do occur. And when they are discovered,
> they often must be corrected. How?
> "Draw a single non-obliterating line through the incorrect entry, write
> the correct entry immediately above it, and initial the change."
> In one's personal records, for one's own use, there was no need to be so
> persnickety. But in a company or other organization, where anyone other
> than the bookkeeper himself/herself would be relying on the entries,
> strict standards were required.
>
> Nowadays, Quicken and other computer programs make it easy to delete an
> entry - correct or not - so completely that no one can tell that it was
> ever there. That is why I've said several times in this newsgroup that
> Quicken is a great program for personal recordkeeping, but NOT for
> "third-party" accounting. That's my own terminology for records that are
> to be relied on by third parties. "First-party" accounting would be where
> I keep my own records for my own information, just as I keep my own
> checkbook and can make

Yeah, there are a couple of good responses to my comment...

The investor portfolio accounting software that I develop has a Backup file
command and an Install Backup file command. So if mistakes are made but
found before Backup then the set of backup files could be installed to start
over from a previous point. That gives just a short time-frame opportunity
to avoid bad entries...

But once the mistakes are backed-up then both sets of files have the
mistakes. In that case just make a same date same-amount counter-balancing
transaction and the situation is obvious. And there's no problem because the
software never makes mistakes and never fails to handle difficult
situations...


430 No such article
> Hi, KBH.
>
> Bookkeepers are human. Mistakes do occur. And when they are discovered,
> they often must be corrected. How?
> "Draw a single non-obliterating line through the incorrect entry, write
> the correct entry immediately above it, and initial the change."
> In one's personal records, for one's own use, there was no need to be so
> persnickety. But in a company or other organization, where anyone other
> than the bookkeeper himself/herself would be relying on the entries,
> strict standards were required.
>
> Nowadays, Quicken and other computer programs make it easy to delete an
> entry - correct or not - so completely that no one can tell that it was
> ever there. That is why I've said several times in this newsgroup that
> Quicken is a great program for personal recordkeeping, but NOT for
> "third-party" accounting. That's my own terminology for records that are
> to be relied on by third parties. "First-party" accounting would be where
> I keep my own records for my own information, just as I keep my own
> checkbook and can make

Yeah, there are a couple of good responses to my comment...

The investor portfolio accounting software that I develop has a Backup file
command and an Install Backup file command. So if mistakes are made but
found before Backup then the set of backup files could be installed to start
over from a previous point. That gives just a short time-frame opportunity
to avoid bad entries...

But once the mistakes are backed-up then both sets of files have the
mistakes. In that case just make a same date same-amount counter-balancing
transaction and the situation is obvious. And there's no problem because the
software never makes mistakes and never fails to handle difficult
situations...



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