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1041 - Tax Return for An Estate

 

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1041 - Tax Return for An Estate sgallagher@rogers.com 02-27-2007
Posted by sgallagher@rogers.com on March 1, 2007, 8:49 pm
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>> My father was receiving some class action awards prior to
>> his death in 2006. They were not considered taxable to my
>> father when he was receiving them. His death was not
>> related to the class action cases. Some class action awards
>> will be coming in for several years still, according to the
>> lawfirm handling them.
>>
>> In order to continue receiving these awards my mother had to
>> have his will probated in Florida and a bank account opened
>> in the name of my father's estate, as awards will be
>> "Payable to the Estate of .........."

> The payor wanted to be sure that mom was taking the money
> without paying the funeral bills, and that mom was the sole
> heir. There were simpler ways to do it than Probate, but
> the Probate shouldn't have cost you anything, or very
> little.

You're correct, the lawyer that we dealt with charged a flat
$500, to have the will probated. A few lawyers wanted to
collect a percentage of every award that might ever be
ordered in the future and we walked away from them. The
awards waiting to be paid have more than covered the $500
already.

>> Part of this process was the issuance of an EIN for the
>> estate.
>>
>> The estate has no assets as everything else was jointly
>> owned, and passed into my mother's name.
>>
>> The IRS sent my mother a letter telling her to file a 1041
>> for the estate for 2006. The estate had no income in 2006.

> Don't file a return then.

We weren't sure whether a return was required even if no
income was generated.


>> Questions:
>>
>> Are the class action awards still tax free?

> YES

>> If yes, and the estate generates no other income, does she
>> still have to file a 1041 for the estate.

> Yes if they (the estate income) are over $600

But since you say that the awards should still be tax free
and I threw in the comment that if the estate generates no
other income, it would appear that the $600 threshold would
never be reached.

>> If an award does come in, and she cashes the check in the
>> estates bank account, and then transfers it into her
>> personal bank account, is it considered taxable income to
>> her.

> NO it is a flow-through tax free settlement. No tax to the
> 1041 and no tax to mother.

>> P.S. As a side note, we have confirmed that there is no
>> "estate tax" due.

> P.S> It will be unusual to keep an estate open for several
> years, but it looks like you'll have to. Maybe. after a
> year, they'll write the checks to mom and you can close out
> the estate with a final 1041.
The lawyer handling the class action suits says to expect
awards for the next few years, as they have multiple cases
open.

Thanks to all for their replies.

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Posted by ed on March 2, 2007, 12:51 am
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> ...
> We weren't sure whether a return was required even if no
> income was generated.

Look at the instructions for form 1041 "Who must file" at
www.irs.gov and make your own decision.

ed

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
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Posted by sgallagher@rogers.com on March 3, 2007, 4:29 am
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>> My father was receiving some class action awards prior to
>> his death in 2006. They were not considered taxable to my
>> father when he was receiving them. His death was not
>> related to the class action cases. Some class action awards
>> will be coming in for several years still, according to the
>> lawfirm handling them.
>>
>> In order to continue receiving these awards my mother had to
>> have his will probated in Florida and a bank account opened
>> in the name of my father's estate, as awards will be
>> "Payable to the Estate of .........."
>>
>> Part of this process was the issuance of an EIN for the
>> estate.
>>
>> The estate has no assets as everything else was jointly
>> owned, and passed into my mother's name.
>>
>> The IRS sent my mother a letter telling her to file a 1041
>> for the estate for 2006. The estate had no income in 2006.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> Are the class action awards still tax free?
>> If yes, and the estate generates no other income, does she
>> still have to file a 1041 for the estate.
>>
>> If an award does come in, and she cashes the check in the
>> estates bank account, and then transfers it into her
>> personal bank account, is it considered taxable income to
>> her.
>>
>> P.S. As a side note, we have confirmed that there is no
>> "estate tax" due.

> It sounds like there might be an estate tax due.

Are you truly referring to "estate tax" filed on form 706,
or tax on the estate's income filed on form 1041?

If you are referring to the former, and since the value of
these awards cannot be determined unless and until they
awarded, there would be no way to include them in the
estate's gross value, currently. A question I have is
whether, for estate tax purposes, can any future awards
still be included under the estate tax exemption, if there
is room, which there is.

If you are referring to the latter, tax on income of the
estate filed on 1041, then yes it would be prudent to check
the rules on income in respect of a decedent. I will only
add that they were not taxable to my father when he was
alive.

> Did you confirm that the right to future payments was
> included in the estate?

My question would be how could the right to future payments
be given any monetrary value prior to their cases being
determined? The amounts that are received would have to be
significantly higher than what is being expected before even
pushing the value of the estate over the exemption amount.
We don't expect more than a total of $5,000.

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

Posted by Stuart A. Bronstein on March 4, 2007, 8:50 pm
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>>> If an award does come in, and she cashes the check in the
>>> estates bank account, and then transfers it into her
>>> personal bank account, is it considered taxable income to
>>> her.
>>>
>>> P.S. As a side note, we have confirmed that there is no
>>> "estate tax" due.

>> It sounds like there might be an estate tax due.

> Are you truly referring to "estate tax" filed on form 706,
> or tax on the estate's income filed on form 1041?
>
> If you are referring to the former, and since the value of
> these awards cannot be determined unless and until they
> awarded, there would be no way to include them in the
> estate's gross value, currently. A question I have is
> whether, for estate tax purposes, can any future awards
> still be included under the estate tax exemption, if there
> is room, which there is.

If it's a class action settlement or judgment, there is
probably a schedule of payments to be made in the future.
The present value of that future income stream can be
determined and should be included in the taxable estate for
estate tax purposes.

It's like when you lend someone money, and they pay you back
over time with interest. If you die your estate still has
to include that asset for estate tax purposes.

>> Did you confirm that the right to future payments was
>> included in the estate?

> My question would be how could the right to future payments
> be given any monetrary value prior to their cases being
> determined? The amounts that are received would have to be
> significantly higher than what is being expected before even
> pushing the value of the estate over the exemption amount.
> We don't expect more than a total of $5,000.

It's called actuarial value, and that kind of calculation is
done all the time. See IRS Publication 1457 here:
http://www.fvginternational.com/documents/tax/misc_tax/IRS_Pub_1457.pdf
or here: http://snipurl.com/1bxay

Stu

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

Posted by sgallagher@rogers.com on March 7, 2007, 4:29 am
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>> It sounds like there might be an estate tax due.
>> Are you truly referring to "estate tax" filed on form 706,
>> or tax on the estate's income filed on form 1041?
>>
>> If you are referring to the former, and since the value of
>> these awards cannot be determined unless and until they
>> awarded, there would be no way to include them in the
>> estate's gross value, currently. A question I have is
>> whether, for estate tax purposes, can any future awards
>> still be included under the estate tax exemption, if there
>> is room, which there is.

> If it's a class action settlement or judgment, there is
> probably a schedule of payments to be made in the future.
> The present value of that future income stream can be
> determined and should be included in the taxable estate for
> estate tax purposes.

I see the misunderstanding. There's no schedule of payments
because this isn't one class action settlement with multiple
payments. It's multiple class action cases (against multiple
manufacturers of the same type of product) with single
payments. Some of the cases have yet to be settled, so
there's no way of knowing what the payments will be
(although they're not expected to be large). That's why
it's not possible to know the future income or the value of
the class action settlements at this time.

> It's like when you lend someone money, and they pay you back
> over time with interest. If you die your estate still has
> to include that asset for estate tax purposes.

If this were as you had presumed, one settlement with a
schedule of payments, it would be easy. As I explained
above, it's multiple cases, and we don't know what the
payments are going to be until the cases actually settle.

But even so, the expected payments if included in the
estate's gross value, would not even cause it to go anywhere
near the exclusion for estate tax.

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

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