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AMT Not Offsetting Long Term Capital Gains With Losses on Form 6251

 

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AMT Not Offsetting Long Term Capital Gains With Losses on Form 6251 sharad.sogani 02-27-2008
Posted by sharad.sogani on February 27, 2008, 2:29 pm
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I fall in the highest income tax bracket and have noticed that my
long term capital gains and losses net to a loss of $9000 under the
regular rules. So, in the 1040 I have a net loss of $3000 (maximum
allowed) and the rest should be carried over. However, in form 6251, I
am noticing that these are not offsetting and I show a net gain of
$5000. So, I am being subject to an extra tax on $5000 + $3000 using
AMT. Worse yet, it appears that my original loss of $9000 cannot be
carried over. I

Is my analysis correct or do I need to override the numbers on Form
6251 to have the same long term loss of $3000.

I have already done an extensive search and cannot find a conclusive
answer.

Thanks.

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Posted by ed on February 27, 2008, 8:32 pm
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On Feb 27, 1:29 pm, sharad.sog...@gmail.com wrote:
> I fall in the  highest income tax bracket and have noticed that my
> long term capital gains and losses net to a loss of $9000 under the
> regular rules. So, in the 1040 I have a net loss of $3000 (maximum
> allowed) and the rest should be carried over. However, in form 6251, I
> am noticing that these are not offsetting and I show a net gain of
> $5000. So, I am being subject to an extra tax on $5000 + $3000 using
> AMT. Worse yet, it appears that my original loss of $9000 cannot be
> carried over. I
>
> Is my analysis correct or do I need to override the numbers on Form
> 6251 to have the same long term loss of $3000.
>
> I have already done an extensive search and cannot find a conclusive
> answer.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
> << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used,   >>
> << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties  >>
> << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer.                  >>
> <<                                                         >>
> <<   The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts   >>
> <<  to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy  >>
> <<                  are atwww.asktax.org.                 >>
> <<         Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved.         >>
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
You are not giving us all the facts we need to solve your problem.
But if
you have an AMT loss of over $3,000 it is limited to $3,000 also
and you should then get 0 on line 16 of 6251. You can't have a
positive LTCG for AMT purposes, with a negative regular tax LTCG,
and your AMT LTCG would virtually always be less than your regular
LTCG.
The evidence is that your 6251 line 16 must be negative or 0.
You have entered something wrong. Read the instructions on lline 31
of 6251
and I doubt you would be using Part III unless you have Quaified
DIvidends, but
that wouldn't cause your problem..

ed

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by sharad.sogani on February 28, 2008, 10:19 pm
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> You are not giving us all the facts we need to solve your problem.
> But if
> you have an AMT loss of over $3,000 it is limited to $3,000 also
>  and you should then get 0 on line 16 of 6251.  You can't have a
> positive LTCG for AMT purposes, with a negative regular tax LTCG,
>  and your AMT LTCG would virtually always be  less than your regular
> LTCG.
> The evidence is that your 6251 line 16 must be negative or 0.
> You have entered something wrong.  Read the instructions on lline 31
> of 6251
> and I doubt you would be using Part III unless you have Quaified
> DIvidends, but
> that wouldn't cause your problem..
>

The only capital gains and losses are stock related and there are no
ISO options. I do have a small amount of qualified dividends which is
causing me to go to Part III of Form 6251. I think the real source of
the discrepancy is in the LTCG section of Part III (Line 37B) where
Turbo Tax should use the value from Line 15 of Schedule D and it says
it does do that (but it adjusts for AMT in various forms and
worksheets). I fail to understand how Turbo Tax is arriving at this
value. Also the same problem exists in Line 16 Worksheet G where the
values is not the same as the real loss.



Should I safely override it so that Line 16 of form 6251 becomes 0
as
there is no difference in LTCG between AMT and regular tax for my
case?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by removeps-groups@yahoo.com on February 29, 2008, 1:05 am
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On Feb 28, 7:19 pm, sharad.sog...@gmail.com wrote:

> Should I safely override it so that Line 16 of form 6251 becomes 0

No, you should take the issue up with Turbo tax customer support. You
may be able to share more details with them than on this newsgroup.
If you have indeed found a bug, you should ask them to pay you
something, say $5000.

Also, can you look at the worksheets Turbotax creates?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by ed on February 29, 2008, 3:24 pm
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On Feb 28, 9:19 pm, sharad.sog...@gmail.com wrote:
> > You are not giving us all the facts we need to solve your problem.
> > But if
> > you have an AMT loss of over $3,000 it is limited to $3,000 also
> >  and you should then get 0 on line 16 of 6251.  You can't have a
> > positive LTCG for AMT purposes, with a negative regular tax LTCG,
> >  and your AMT LTCG would virtually always be  less than your regular
> > LTCG.
> > The evidence is that your 6251 line 16 must be negative or 0.
> > You have entered something wrong.  Read the instructions on lline 31
> > of 6251
> > and I doubt you would be using Part III unless you have Quaified
> > DIvidends, but
> > that wouldn't cause your problem..
>
> The only capital gains and losses are stock related and there are no
>  ISO options. I do have a small amount of qualified dividends which is
>  causing me to go to Part III of Form 6251. I think the real source of
>  the discrepancy is in the LTCG section of Part III (Line 37B) where
>  Turbo Tax should use the value from Line 15 of Schedule D and it says
>  it does do that (but it adjusts for AMT in various forms and
>  worksheets). I fail to understand how Turbo Tax is arriving at this
>  value. Also the same problem exists in Line 16 Worksheet G where the
> values is not the same as the real loss.
>
>  Should I safely override it so that Line 16 of form 6251 becomes 0
> as
>  there is no difference in LTCG between AMT and regular tax for my
> case?
>
> --
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
> << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used,   >>
> << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties  >>
> << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer.                  >>
> <<                                                         >>
> <<   The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts   >>
> <<  to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy  >>
> <<                  are atwww.asktax.org.                 >>
> <<         Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved.         >>
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

You must have AMT adjustments on the items leading into line 15 and 16
you mention,
Before you override anything I isugest you trace these items down and
follow
removeps-groups' suggestions. We can't really help you because we
can' t see the
same items you have entered somewhere that you can't find.

ed

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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