Home Page link  

Business vs Hobby

 

Taxes General Forum - Tax professionals meeting place and answers to queries. (Moderated)

 Post an article  get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Business vs Hobby rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp 02-07-2008
Posted by rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp on February 7, 2008, 5:34 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Can someone point me at the elements that distinguish a business
(Schedule C) from a hobby (1040 line 21 "other income")?

Here's the thing: I do a lot of contesting (participate in local
radio/TV station promo programs, sweepstakes, etc.). I have some small
expenses, primarily the costs of driving to the stations to pick up
prizes. I could also make a case that a small proportion of my internet
connection costs are attributable to this enterprise.

I've made money at this enterprise for the last 3+ years, and would have
still made money even if I had been able to deduct my expenses.

I'm considering declaring this to be a Schedule C business so that my
expenses are not unreasonably limited by the 2% AGI floor.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Alan on February 7, 2008, 6:52 pm
Please log in for more thread options
rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp.org wrote:
> Can someone point me at the elements that distinguish a business
> (Schedule C) from a hobby (1040 line 21 "other income")?
>
> Here's the thing: I do a lot of contesting (participate in local
> radio/TV station promo programs, sweepstakes, etc.). I have some small
> expenses, primarily the costs of driving to the stations to pick up
> prizes. I could also make a case that a small proportion of my internet
> connection costs are attributable to this enterprise.
>
> I've made money at this enterprise for the last 3+ years, and would have
> still made money even if I had been able to deduct my expenses.
>
> I'm considering declaring this to be a Schedule C business so that my
> expenses are not unreasonably limited by the 2% AGI floor.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
Here's what the IRS says:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch01.html#d0e885

Don't miss the line that says: No one factor alone is decisive.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp on February 8, 2008, 12:39 am
Please log in for more thread options
Alan wrote:
> rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp.org wrote:
>> Can someone point me at the elements that distinguish a business
>> (Schedule C) from a hobby (1040 line 21 "other income")?
>>
>> Here's the thing: I do a lot of contesting (participate in local
>> radio/TV station promo programs, sweepstakes, etc.). I have some
>> small expenses, primarily the costs of driving to the stations to pick
>> up prizes. I could also make a case that a small proportion of my
>> internet connection costs are attributable to this enterprise.
>>
>> I've made money at this enterprise for the last 3+ years, and would
>> have still made money even if I had been able to deduct my expenses.
>>
>> I'm considering declaring this to be a Schedule C business so that my
>> expenses are not unreasonably limited by the 2% AGI floor.
>>
>> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
>>
> Here's what the IRS says:
> http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch01.html#d0e885
>
> Don't miss the line that says: No one factor alone is decisive.

Yup, 'cause otherwise, "You depend on the income for your livelihood"
would be a killer, and that would be true for an awful lot of people
with side businesses, such as Amway (does Amway still exist?).

Interesting. Thanks very much for the pointer!

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by ed on February 8, 2008, 12:41 am
Please log in for more thread options
> rlsuse...@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp.org wrote:
> > Can someone point me at the elements that distinguish a business
> > (Schedule C) from a hobby (1040 line 21 "other income")?
>
> > Here's the thing:  I do a lot of contesting (participate in local
> > radio/TV station promo programs, sweepstakes, etc.).  I have some small
> > expenses, primarily the costs of driving to the stations to pick up
> > prizes.  I could also make a case that a small proportion of my internet
> > connection costs are attributable to this enterprise.
>
> > I've made money at this enterprise for the last 3+ years, and would have
> > still made money even if I had been able to deduct my expenses.
>
> > I'm considering declaring this to be a Schedule C business so that my
> > expenses are not unreasonably limited by the 2% AGI floor.
>
> > Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
> Here's what the IRS says:http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch01.html#d0e885
>
> Don't miss the line that says: No one factor alone is decisive.
>
> --
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
> << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used,   >>
> << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties  >>
> << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer.                  >>
> <<                                                         >>
> <<   The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts   >>
> <<  to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy  >>
> <<                  are atwww.asktax.org.                 >>
> <<         Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved.         >>
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>- Hide quoted
text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You should have been doing this on a Schedule C since incedption.
Sounds like it was your choice to put it on line 21. The "hobby" thing
is a forced issue with the IRS, not something you should try to
satisfy. If they can't prove you lost money in 3 of the past 5 years
they can't force you into hobby status. You could lose money forever
and not be a hobby if you are in business to profit, hopefully.

The flip side is that on line 21 you didn't have to pay SE taxes of
over 15%. Are you sure you don't want to be a hobby??

ed

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp on February 8, 2008, 1:45 pm
Please log in for more thread options
ed wrote:
>> rlsuse...@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp.org wrote:
>>> Can someone point me at the elements that distinguish a business
>>> (Schedule C) from a hobby (1040 line 21 "other income")?
>>> Here's the thing: I do a lot of contesting (participate in local
>>> radio/TV station promo programs, sweepstakes, etc.). I have some small
>>> expenses, primarily the costs of driving to the stations to pick up
>>> prizes. I could also make a case that a small proportion of my internet
>>> connection costs are attributable to this enterprise.
>>> I've made money at this enterprise for the last 3+ years, and would have
>>> still made money even if I had been able to deduct my expenses.
>>> I'm considering declaring this to be a Schedule C business so that my
>>> expenses are not unreasonably limited by the 2% AGI floor.
>>> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
>> Here's what the IRS says:http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch01.html#d0e885
>>
>> Don't miss the line that says: No one factor alone is decisive.
>>
>> --
>> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
>> << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
>> << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
>> << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
>> << >>
>> << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
>> << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
>> << are atwww.asktax.org. >>
>> << Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
>> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>- Hide quoted
text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> You should have been doing this on a Schedule C since incedption.
> Sounds like it was your choice to put it on line 21. The "hobby" thing
> is a forced issue with the IRS, not something you should try to
> satisfy. If they can't prove you lost money in 3 of the past 5 years
> they can't force you into hobby status. You could lose money forever
> and not be a hobby if you are in business to profit, hopefully.
>
> The flip side is that on line 21 you didn't have to pay SE taxes of
> over 15%. Are you sure you don't want to be a hobby??

Another excellent point. If my regular consulting biz gets me above the
FICA ceiling, then the answer is "yes". Otherwise, you're right: the
deductible expenses will be wiped out by SE tax.

========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
When responding to a post, please delete all parts of the prior post that
are not necessary either for context or are the part to which you
specifically respond. Place your comments directly after the portion to
which you respond.

Thanks for your assistance.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Similar ThreadsPosted
Mileage Deductions When Driving for Both Business and Non-Business. March 1, 2007, 9:08 pm
Transfer Business Vehicle From One Business To Another June 12, 2006, 9:18 pm
Re: Business Tax ID prior to business plan June 29, 2006, 12:15 am
Will there be tax deductions for my LLC business? July 12, 2007, 7:34 pm
Taxes for my Business, Help! July 28, 2007, 12:24 am
Re: Will there be tax deductions for my LLC business? August 27, 2007, 2:12 am
Business Mileage March 31, 2008, 1:47 pm
Business Recommendations April 30, 2008, 1:16 pm
Re: Business Funds... June 29, 2006, 12:15 am
Dog Breeding Business May 9, 2008, 12:16 pm

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
This site is not affiliated with Intuit - makers of Quickbooks and Quicken software
This site is not affiliated with Sage Software - makers of Peachtree accounting software
XML SitemapXML Sitemap