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Can a one-man C-corp make sense?

 

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Subject Author Date
Can a one-man C-corp make sense? Rich Carreiro 09-25-2007
Posted by Rich Carreiro on September 25, 2007, 11:40 pm
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A close relative is giving consulting a try. For now she's
operating as a vanilla sole proprietor to minimize the red
tape until she decides if it's going to work out and be
sustainable/profitable. If she decides it does, she'll
certainly talk to a lawyer and a tax pro before messing with
entities. But in the meantime we're trying to get some
perspectives on different forms of business.

The most common info one tends to read seems these days to
recommend operating as a sole prop, as an S-corp, or as an
LLC that chooses to be taxed as a sole prop or an S-corp.

However, the other day we were reading an interesting book
by Nolo Press on business structure that made some pretty
interesting arguments for a one-man operation organizing as
a C-corp instead of an S-corp (if you're not going to be a
sole prop or disregarded entity).

Some of the author's arguments:

* For a one-man operation, an S-corp doesn't give much of a
chance to avoid payroll taxes because pretty much all the
profit has to be taken as wages.

* For a one-man operation, the double-taxation a C-corp
brings into play can be made mostly irrelevant if most/all
of the profits are taken out as wages, making a C-corp no
worse than an S-corp if you go that route.

* However, with a C-corp you have the option to not take out
all profits as wages. The remainder will indeed be taxed at
the corporate level, but then this gives higher bracket
people the ability to split their business income between
themselves (as wages) and the corporation (as corporate
profits) and get the first $50,000 of corporate profits
taxed at only 15%. While those profits will eventually be
subject to a second tax when they ultimately come out, that
can be deferred indefinitely, may be at a low rate (as
qualified dividends), or can be paid out as wages in years
when you are personally in a low bracket.

* A C-corp gives full fringe benefit flexibility, allowing
access to plans and fringes that are disallowed to sole
proprietors or to S-corp owners.

On the downside, it's also more complicated, may subject you
to state corporate minimum taxes, may cost more to set up,
have higher compliance and filing costs, etc.

Comments?

--
Rich Carreiro rlc-news@rlcarr.com

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Posted by Benjamin Yazersky CPA on September 27, 2007, 2:37 am
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> A close relative is giving consulting a try. For now she's
> operating as a vanilla sole proprietor to minimize the red
> tape until she decides if it's going to work out and be
> sustainable/profitable. If she decides it does, she'll
> certainly talk to a lawyer and a tax pro before messing with
> entities. But in the meantime we're trying to get some
> perspectives on different forms of business.
>
> The most common info one tends to read seems these days to
> recommend operating as a sole prop, as an S-corp, or as an
> LLC that chooses to be taxed as a sole prop or an S-corp.
>
> However, the other day we were reading an interesting book
> by Nolo Press on business structure that made some pretty
> interesting arguments for a one-man operation organizing as
> a C-corp instead of an S-corp (if you're not going to be a
> sole prop or disregarded entity).
>
> Some of the author's arguments:
>
> * For a one-man operation, an S-corp doesn't give much of a
> chance to avoid payroll taxes because pretty much all the
> profit has to be taken as wages.
>
> * For a one-man operation, the double-taxation a C-corp
> brings into play can be made mostly irrelevant if most/all
> of the profits are taken out as wages, making a C-corp no
> worse than an S-corp if you go that route.
>
> * However, with a C-corp you have the option to not take out
> all profits as wages. The remainder will indeed be taxed at
> the corporate level, but then this gives higher bracket
> people the ability to split their business income between
> themselves (as wages) and the corporation (as corporate
> profits) and get the first $50,000 of corporate profits
> taxed at only 15%. While those profits will eventually be
> subject to a second tax when they ultimately come out, that
> can be deferred indefinitely, may be at a low rate (as
> qualified dividends), or can be paid out as wages in years
> when you are personally in a low bracket.
>
> * A C-corp gives full fringe benefit flexibility, allowing
> access to plans and fringes that are disallowed to sole
> proprietors or to S-corp owners.
>
> On the downside, it's also more complicated, may subject you
> to state corporate minimum taxes, may cost more to set up,
> have higher compliance and filing costs, etc.
>
> Comments?

There are different issues with each type of entity.
Each has its advantages & disadvantages.
Facts & circumstances will help decide which is most
appropriate for your situation. You should consult your
CPA/tax advisor to help determine which one works best for
you.

___________________________________
<<< Benjamin Yazersky, CPA [NJ & NY] >>>
-----> real address on hobokeni or hobokenx <-----

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Drew Edmundson on September 27, 2007, 2:37 am
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snip
> However, the other day we were reading an interesting book
> by Nolo Press on business structure that made some pretty
> interesting arguments for a one-man operation organizing as
> a C-corp instead of an S-corp (if you're not going to be a
> sole prop or disregarded entity).
>
> Some of the author's arguments:
>
> * For a one-man operation, an S-corp doesn't give much of a
> chance to avoid payroll taxes because pretty much all the
> profit has to be taken as wages.

The author is probably right but in reality many pay only
part as wages and part as distributions.

> * For a one-man operation, the double-taxation a C-corp
> brings into play can be made mostly irrelevant if most/all
> of the profits are taken out as wages, making a C-corp no
> worse than an S-corp if you go that route.

The author is assuming that the C-corp will be on top of its
accounting enough to zero out profits at year-end. Many
small business owners don't even know their bank and credit
card balances.

> * However, with a C-corp you have the option to not take out
> all profits as wages. The remainder will indeed be taxed at
> the corporate level, but then this gives higher bracket
> people the ability to split their business income between
> themselves (as wages) and the corporation (as corporate
> profits) and get the first $50,000 of corporate profits
> taxed at only 15%. While those profits will eventually be
> subject to a second tax when they ultimately come out, that
> can be deferred indefinitely, may be at a low rate (as
> qualified dividends), or can be paid out as wages in years
> when you are personally in a low bracket.

Currently the qualified dividend break is scheduled to
expire. I also seldom see a successful consultant dropping
into a lower bracket. It does happen though, especially
when rates are cut. Besides the "bonus the profit" out
method takes care of the problem if done correctly.

> * A C-corp gives full fringe benefit flexibility, allowing
> access to plans and fringes that are disallowed to sole
> proprietors or to S-corp owners.

Mostly this is true. In some areas a solo will still not
get a benefit. For example for a dependent care plan the
owner cannot receive more than 25% of the benefits.

> On the downside, it's also more complicated, may subject you
> to state corporate minimum taxes, may cost more to set up,
> have higher compliance and filing costs, etc.

I don't think it will typically be more complex to setup
than an S nor should compliance costs vary that much. It
will be the planning that adds to the expense either in time
or money or both.

--
Drew Edmundson, CPA
Cary, NC

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by bc on September 27, 2007, 2:37 am
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> * For a one-man operation, an S-corp doesn't give much of a
> chance to avoid payroll taxes because pretty much all the
> profit has to be taken as wages.

We've never bought into this argument.

> * For a one-man operation, the double-taxation a C-corp
> brings into play can be made mostly irrelevant if most/all
> of the profits are taken out as wages, making a C-corp no
> worse than an S-corp if you go that route.

Because of the above, this becomes a factor for our clients.

> * However, with a C-corp you have the option to not take out
> all profits as wages. The remainder will indeed be taxed at
> the corporate level, but then this gives higher bracket
> people the ability to split their business income between
> themselves (as wages) and the corporation (as corporate
> profits) and get the first $50,000 of corporate profits
> taxed at only 15%. While those profits will eventually be
> subject to a second tax when they ultimately come out, that
> can be deferred indefinitely, may be at a low rate (as
> qualified dividends), or can be paid out as wages in years
> when you are personally in a low bracket.

If the corporation isn't close to zero before taxes, you
will pay a second tax to get the money. It can be dividend
double taxation or it can be FICA and income taxes, but
there will be a second tax.

> * A C-corp gives full fringe benefit flexibility, allowing
> access to plans and fringes that are disallowed to sole
> proprietors or to S-corp owners.

The only fringe we've found worth discussing is medical
reimbursement plan. If your relative has young children, or
significant out of pocket medical expenses this can make the
payroll issue work.

> On the downside, it's also more complicated, may subject you
> to state corporate minimum taxes, may cost more to set up,
> have higher compliance and filing costs, etc.

It shouldn't cost any more to set up than an S-Corporation,
isn't any more complicated than any other business entity,
has no higher compliance or filing cost than any other
business and works well in the appropriate circumstances. If
the business is not a personal services corporation, it can
also use a fiscal year, which allows for income games.

The only additional expense we've consistently seen is the
year end meeting which has to be detailed in order to make
the corporate taxes minimal. There are some state issues,
but not as many as you might think.

--
Bruce Davidson Cantor, CPA, JD
Admitted in Colorado

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Rich Carreiro on September 28, 2007, 3:59 pm
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>> * For a one-man operation, an S-corp doesn't give much of a
>> chance to avoid payroll taxes because pretty much all the
>> profit has to be taken as wages.

> We've never bought into this argument.

You've piqued my interest.

Out of curiousity, is your rationale economics-based (i.e. a
theory about the nature of the income the owner-employee is
earning and the services he provides to the corp that
support only some of profit coming out as wages) or is it
empirically-based (i.e. history shows the IRS doesn't
challenge S-corp dividends of less than X% of profits, so
take an X% of profit dividend), or a mix?

--
Rich Carreiro rlc-news@rlcarr.com

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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