Home Page link  

Capital gains Question

 

Taxes General Forum - Tax professionals meeting place and answers to queries. (Moderated)

 Post an article  get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Capital gains Question wolfman 10-24-2007
Posted by wolfman on October 24, 2007, 7:16 am
Please log in for more thread options
I went into a joint venture with my brother on a land
purchase about 15 years ago. We bought 200 acres for resale.
It was cheap because it did not have access. The plan was to
buy the access to the land and then buy the land which we
did. Since it was my idea and i knew where the land was my
brother agreed to put up all of the money and we would split
the profit 50/50. To protect his investment we agreed to put
the land in his name only. After we found a buyer he got
greedy and decided to try and keep it all himself. It ended
up in court and we are just now settling our dispute. In the
settlement 80 acres are to be transfered to me. Now I have
someone that wants to buy my 80 acres.

Can I claim capital gains on the sale of this land since i
had a joint venture interest in it for the last 15 years?
The joint venture interest has been filed at the clerk and
recorders office all this time.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Dick Adams on October 24, 2007, 5:46 pm
Please log in for more thread options
wolfman wrote:

> I went into a joint venture with my brother on a land
> purchase about 15 years ago. We bought 200 acres for resale.
> It was cheap because it did not have access. The plan was to
> buy the access to the land and then buy the land which we
> did. Since it was my idea and I knew where the land was my
> brother agreed to put up all of the money and we would split
> the profit 50/50.

Sounds fair to me.

> To protect his investment we agreed to put the land in his
> name only.

WOW! I knew what the next paragraph would be before I read
it.

> After we found a buyer he got greedy and decided to try and keep it
> all himself. It ended up in court and we are just now settling our
> dispute. In the settlement 80 acres are to be transfered to me. Now
> I have someone that wants to buy my 80 acres.
>
> Can I claim capital gains on the sale of this land since i
> had a joint venture interest in it for the last 15 years?

Make certain the settlement stipulates that you were to
unnamed partner.

Dick

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Stuart Bronstein on October 24, 2007, 5:46 pm
Please log in for more thread options
wolfman wrote:

> I went into a joint venture with my brother on a land
> purchase about 15 years ago. We bought 200 acres for resale.
> It was cheap because it did not have access. The plan was to
> buy the access to the land and then buy the land which we
> did. Since it was my idea and I knew where the land was my
> brother agreed to put up all of the money and we would split
> the profit 50/50.

Ok so far. But please explain a little more why you were
getting half interest if you were not investing any money.

> To protect his investment we agreed to put the land in his
> name only.

I'm also confused about this. Why in the world would you do
that? How does that protect the investment?

> After we found a buyer he got greedy and decided to try and keep it
> all himself. It ended up in court and we are just now settling our
> dispute. In the settlement 80 acres are to be transfered to me. Now
> I have someone that wants to buy my 80 acres.
>
> Can I claim capital gains on the sale of this land since i
> had a joint venture interest in it for the last 15 years?

Conceptually you can claim long term capital gain treatment
because you were an equitable (if not a legal) owner for the
entire time.

There are several potential problems, however, and that's
the reason I asked the questions above. Answers to those
will need to be determined before your ownership can be
justified.

First of all, the reason the property was put only in your
brother's name will have to be reviewed. You will have to
justify that it was a legally reasonable thing to do if you
were actually a half owner.

Also you appear to have received a half interest in property
but gave nothing in exchange except for your services. If
that's true you should have recognized taxable income at the
time in the value of the property you received. If you
didn't, that could be a problem.

Stu

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Seth on October 25, 2007, 4:19 am
Please log in for more thread options
> wolfman wrote:

>> Since it was my idea and I knew where the land was my
>> brother agreed to put up all of the money and we would split
>> the profit 50/50.

> Ok so far. But please explain a little more why you were
> getting half interest if you were not investing any money.

He didn't get a half interest in the property. He got a
half interest in the profit.

>> To protect his investment we agreed to put the land in his
>> name only.

> I'm also confused about this. Why in the world would you do
> that? How does that protect the investment?

It protects the person who put up the money, since he owns
the property.

> First of all, the reason the property was put only in your
> brother's name will have to be reviewed.

To protect the person who put up the money.

> You will have to justify that it was a legally reasonable thing to
> do if you were actually a half owner.

He wasn't a half owner of the property. Initially, he had a
0% interest. As the price increased, his equity did as
well.

> Also you appear to have received a half interest in property

No, a half interest in the potential *profit*.

> but gave nothing in exchange except for your services. If
> that's true you should have recognized taxable income at the
> time in the value of the property you received. If you
> didn't, that could be a problem.

What is the taxable value of a half interest in the excess
sale price over $100,000 for property whose current market
value is $100,000?

Seth

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Stuart Bronstein on October 25, 2007, 5:00 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Seth wrote:
>> wolfman wrote:

>>> Since it was my idea and I knew where the land was my
>>> brother agreed to put up all of the money and we would split
>>> the profit 50/50.

>> Ok so far. But please explain a little more why you were
>> getting half interest if you were not investing any money.

> He didn't get a half interest in the property. He got a
> half interest in the profit.

If it's a partnership, getting half interest in the profit
means half interest in the partnership. Otherwise he'd
simply be a hired hand.

>>> To protect his investment we agreed to put the land in his
>>> name only.

>> I'm also confused about this. Why in the world would you do
>> that? How does that protect the investment?

> It protects the person who put up the money, since he owns
> the property.

It's not much protection if it turns into a lawsuit. They
should have had a partnership agreement explaining all that.
Otherwise that kind of "protection" can be meaningless.

>> You will have to justify that it was a legally reasonable thing to
>> do if you were actually a half owner.

> He wasn't a half owner of the property. Initially, he had a
> 0% interest. As the price increased, his equity did as
> well.

Again, legally he had no interest in the property per se.
But if it were a partnership and he was entitled to half the
proceeds from the beginning, he was immediately half owner
of the partnership.

>> but gave nothing in exchange except for your services. If
>> that's true you should have recognized taxable income at the
>> time in the value of the property you received. If you
>> didn't, that could be a problem.

> What is the taxable value of a half interest in the excess
> sale price over $100,000 for property whose current market
> value is $100,000?

It's what a willing buyer would pay, of course. How much
would you pay for that? It's certainly worth more than
nothing if you can just sit and wait for the property to
increase in value, with no downside.

Stu

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Similar ThreadsPosted
Re: Capital gains Question October 25, 2007, 5:00 pm
Re: Capital gains Question October 26, 2007, 11:51 pm
Re: Capital gains Question October 26, 2007, 11:51 pm
Re: Capital gains Question November 9, 2007, 6:55 am
Capital Gains carryover question April 12, 2008, 9:24 pm
Short Term Capital Gains and Long Term Capital Losses January 13, 2007, 2:12 am
Capital Gains October 30, 2007, 11:47 pm
Capital Gains=0 January 18, 2008, 7:37 pm
Capital Gains October 7, 2008, 6:10 pm
capital gains questions March 7, 2007, 4:29 am

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
This site is not affiliated with Intuit - makers of Quickbooks and Quicken software
This site is not affiliated with Sage Software - makers of Peachtree accounting software
XML SitemapXML Sitemap