Home Page link  

Comingling pre/post-tax contributions in IRA

 

Taxes General Forum - Tax professionals meeting place and answers to queries. (Moderated)

 Post an article  get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Comingling pre/post-tax contributions in IRA nomail1983@hotmail.com 09-06-2007
Posted by nomail1983@hotmail.com on September 6, 2007, 9:34 pm
Please log in for more thread options
I know I need to study IRS Pub 590, but I am hoping some
kind soul will offer some educated insights ....

As I recall, it is best to avoid comingling pre- and
post-tax contributions in IRAs. I think it simplifies
things when determining the tax on distributions. Is that
right?

Or does the IRS require that you prorate the taxability of
distributions across all IRAs, independent of the ratio of
pre-tax and post-tax contributions in each IRA that funds
were actually distributed from?

Assuming that I am correct about perferring to keep pre- and
post-tax contributions in separate IRAs, is there anything I
can to correct the situation if I inadvertently comingled
them?

I am talking about effecting a correction, if possible,
within a few days after I pushed the button to consolidate
the separate IRAs.

(I forgot why I was keeping them separate in the first
place, and I decided to consolidate two IRAs that I have at
one brokerage firm.)

If I simply create a new IRA and fund it with the amount of
the post-tax IRA before consolidation, would that be
sufficient.

It is not clear to me how the IRS, decades later, know how
much of an IRA was funded with pre-tax contributions and how
much with post-tax contributions. But if it matters, the
pre-tax IRA, which now includes some post-tax contribution
and its earnings, was designated as a Rollover IRA when the
account was opened.

(I'm not sure that designation has stuck with the account
since then. I need to check records.)

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Herb Smith on September 8, 2007, 12:26 am
Please log in for more thread options

> I know I need to study IRS Pub 590, but I am hoping some
> kind soul will offer some educated insights ....
>
> As I recall, it is best to avoid comingling pre- and
> post-tax contributions in IRAs. I think it simplifies
> things when determining the tax on distributions. Is that
> right?

Possibly, but as long as you maintain accurate records and
file your 8606 form whenever you make a post-tax
(nondeductible) contribution, it should not be a problem.

> Or does the IRS require that you prorate the taxability of
> distributions across all IRAs, independent of the ratio of
> pre-tax and post-tax contributions in each IRA that funds
> were actually distributed from?

Correct

> Assuming that I am correct about perferring to keep pre- and
> post-tax contributions in separate IRAs, is there anything I
> can to correct the situation if I inadvertently comingled
> them?
>
> I am talking about effecting a correction, if possible,
> within a few days after I pushed the button to consolidate
> the separate IRAs.
>
> (I forgot why I was keeping them separate in the first
> place, and I decided to consolidate two IRAs that I have at
> one brokerage firm.)
>
> If I simply create a new IRA and fund it with the amount of
> the post-tax IRA before consolidation, would that be
> sufficient.

If you haven't read Pub 590 you may not be aware of a
fundamental truth about IRA accounts: No matter how many
individual accounts, brokers, etc that you use, the IRS
considers ALL these subaccounts to be part of a SINGLE IRA
account. Whether you physically separate your pre- and
post-tax contributions is irrelevant, each withdrawal is
effectively taxed as prorated amounts of each in all your
subaccounts. This is true regardless of which account you
tap for the withdrawal. As I stated above, form 8606 is the
route that you use to track the taxability of such
withdrawals.

> It is not clear to me how the IRS, decades later, know how
> much of an IRA was funded with pre-tax contributions and how
> much with post-tax contributions. But if it matters, the
> pre-tax IRA, which now includes some post-tax contribution
> and its earnings, was designated as a Rollover IRA when the
> account was opened.
>
> (I'm not sure that designation has stuck with the account
> since then. I need to check records.)

See above.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Barry Margolin on September 8, 2007, 12:26 am
Please log in for more thread options

> I know I need to study IRS Pub 590, but I am hoping some
> kind soul will offer some educated insights ....
>
> As I recall, it is best to avoid comingling pre- and
> post-tax contributions in IRAs. I think it simplifies
> things when determining the tax on distributions. Is that
> right?

No.

> Or does the IRS require that you prorate the taxability of
> distributions across all IRAs, independent of the ratio of
> pre-tax and post-tax contributions in each IRA that funds
> were actually distributed from?

That's correct.

What you may be thinking of is that you shouldn't comingle
rollover and contributory IRAs, because the rollover IRA can
be rolled into another employer plan later (although there
are few reasons why one would want to do so -- the only one
I can think of is so that you can then take a loan from the
employer plan).

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Brew1 on September 8, 2007, 12:26 am
Please log in for more thread options

> I know I need to study IRS Pub 590, but I am hoping some
> kind soul will offer some educated insights ....
>
> As I recall, it is best to avoid comingling pre- and
> post-tax contributions in IRAs. I think it simplifies
> things when determining the tax on distributions. Is that
> right?
>
> Or does the IRS require that you prorate the taxability of
> distributions across all IRAs, independent of the ratio of
> pre-tax and post-tax contributions in each IRA that funds
> were actually distributed from?
>
> Assuming that I am correct about perferring to keep pre- and
> post-tax contributions in separate IRAs, is there anything I
> can to correct the situation if I inadvertently comingled
> them?
>
> I am talking about effecting a correction, if possible,
> within a few days after I pushed the button to consolidate
> the separate IRAs.
>
> (I forgot why I was keeping them separate in the first
> place, and I decided to consolidate two IRAs that I have at
> one brokerage firm.)
>
> If I simply create a new IRA and fund it with the amount of
> the post-tax IRA before consolidation, would that be
> sufficient.
>
> It is not clear to me how the IRS, decades later, know how
> much of an IRA was funded with pre-tax contributions and how
> much with post-tax contributions. But if it matters, the
> pre-tax IRA, which now includes some post-tax contribution
> and its earnings, was designated as a Rollover IRA when the
> account was opened.
>
> (I'm not sure that designation has stuck with the account
> since then. I need to check records.)

after tax (nondeductible) contributions have to be reported
(by you) on Form 8606 for the year they apply. Otherwise
you pay tax twice on that money.

When you take money out, you use Form 8606 to determine the
amount that is taxable--you will be asked for the value of
ALL your traditional IRA's at the end of the year to
calculate the percentage that is taxable. A Roth IRA is
different, with distributions considered in order of
contributions, conversions, and earnings.

Other than keeping things simple, I don't see a drawback
from commingled funds.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Don Priebe on September 8, 2007, 12:26 am
Please log in for more thread options
> Or does the IRS require that you prorate the taxability of
> distributions across all IRAs, independent of the ratio of
> pre-tax and post-tax contributions in each IRA that funds
> were actually distributed from?

Yes. See the instructions for form 8606.

--
Don EA in Upstate NY

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Similar ThreadsPosted
401(k) Contributions February 12, 2007, 12:04 am
Credit for 401(k) contributions March 28, 2007, 5:15 pm
excess ira contributions 9 yrs ago March 25, 2008, 10:00 pm
Post-Tax 401-K Contributions April 18, 2008, 6:13 pm
Re: Retirement Contributions April 12, 2006, 11:28 pm
non deductable IRA contributions October 17, 2008, 5:05 pm
Need help with excess Roth IRA contributions ... February 25, 2007, 5:00 am
401(k) return of excess contributions March 20, 2007, 1:27 am
Excess Roth IRA contributions May 25, 2007, 10:50 pm
Roth contributions & withdrawls October 11, 2007, 12:41 am

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
This site is not affiliated with Intuit - makers of Quickbooks and Quicken software
This site is not affiliated with Sage Software - makers of Peachtree accounting software
XML SitemapXML Sitemap