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Comingling pre/post-tax contributions in IRA

 

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Subject Author Date
Comingling pre/post-tax contributions in IRA nomail1983@hotmail.com 09-06-2007
Posted by bono9763@yahoo.com on September 8, 2007, 12:26 am
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> I know I need to study IRS Pub 590, but I am hoping some
> kind soul will offer some educated insights ....
>
> As I recall, it is best to avoid comingling pre- and
> post-tax contributions in IRAs. I think it simplifies
> things when determining the tax on distributions. Is that
> right?
>
> Or does the IRS require that you prorate the taxability of
> distributions across all IRAs, independent of the ratio of
> pre-tax and post-tax contributions in each IRA that funds
> were actually distributed from?
>
> Assuming that I am correct about perferring to keep pre- and
> post-tax contributions in separate IRAs, is there anything I
> can to correct the situation if I inadvertently comingled
> them?
>
> I am talking about effecting a correction, if possible,
> within a few days after I pushed the button to consolidate
> the separate IRAs.
>
> (I forgot why I was keeping them separate in the first
> place, and I decided to consolidate two IRAs that I have at
> one brokerage firm.)
>
> If I simply create a new IRA and fund it with the amount of
> the post-tax IRA before consolidation, would that be
> sufficient.
>
> It is not clear to me how the IRS, decades later, know how
> much of an IRA was funded with pre-tax contributions and how
> much with post-tax contributions. But if it matters, the
> pre-tax IRA, which now includes some post-tax contribution
> and its earnings, was designated as a Rollover IRA when the
> account was opened.
>
> (I'm not sure that designation has stuck with the account
> since then. I need to check records.)

There is no need to keep separate accounts, as the IRS makes
you add up the total of all your IRAs and calculate a
percentage non-taxable based on your non-deductible
contributions over the years. The IRS bases the calculations
on the Form 8606 that you filed each year you had a
non-deductible contribution to an IRA.

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Posted by Tom Russ on September 8, 2007, 12:26 am
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> As I recall, it is best to avoid comingling pre- and
> post-tax contributions in IRAs. I think it simplifies
> things when determining the tax on distributions. Is that
> right?

No. See below.

> Or does the IRS require that you prorate the taxability of
> distributions across all IRAs, independent of the ratio of
> pre-tax and post-tax contributions in each IRA that funds
> were actually distributed from?

The value of all IRAs are aggregated to determine the
taxable amount. It doesn't matter which account you draw the
money from.

If you think about it, post-tax treatment in IRAs applies
only to the contributions. The earnings are always
tax-deferred, so even an IRA with only pre-tax contributions
would have a mixture of taxable and tax-free distributions.
But since the law requires you to aggregate all balances it
doesn't matter.

> It is not clear to me how the IRS, decades later, know how
> much of an IRA was funded with pre-tax contributions and how
> much with post-tax contributions. But if it matters, the
> pre-tax IRA, which now includes some post-tax contribution
> and its earnings, was designated as a Rollover IRA when the
> account was opened.

The IRS knows because you need to tell them. Form 8606 is
used to keep track of your basis in the IRA. You file this
every year in which non-deductable contributions are made,
and then each year in which you take distributions, because
the ratio will change due to investment returns in the IRA.

It was once advisable to keep roll-over and non-roll-over
accounts separate, but that is no longer necessary.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp on September 9, 2007, 10:09 pm
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Tom Russ wrote:

> It was once advisable to keep roll-over and non-roll-over
> accounts separate, but that is no longer necessary.

Is that really true? I thought it's still valid: The reason
you want to segregate rollover funds is so that you can roll
them back into a 401k if you so desire.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Ernie Klein on September 9, 2007, 10:09 pm
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> It was once advisable to keep roll-over and non-roll-over
> accounts separate, but that is no longer necessary.

I thought that if you rolled a 401K into an IRA, you had the
option to roll that back into a different 401K plan from a
different employer at some time in the future, but if the
rollover IRA was commingled with money from a different
source (other than the rollover 401K) then you lost that
option. Did something change this?

--
-Ernie-

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Rich Carreiro on September 10, 2007, 6:58 pm
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> I thought that if you rolled a 401K into an IRA, you had the
> option to roll that back into a different 401K plan from a
> different employer at some time in the future, but if the
> rollover IRA was commingled with money from a different
> source (other than the rollover 401K) then you lost that
> option. Did something change this?

Yes, it's been changed and that is no longer the case.

*However*, because a 401(k) plan is blown if non-ded
trad IRA contributions get rolled into it, many 401(k)
custodians still won't accept rollovers from commingled
IRAs, even though tax law permits it.

--
Rich Carreiro rlc-news@rlcarr.com

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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