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Subject Author Date
Estate Taxes blaha 04-03-2008
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Posted by blaha on April 3, 2008, 10:47 am
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 I'm having a problem with the appraisal of my mother's estate, and
thought some folks here may have an opinion.

First, there are several items that we believe the appraiser has
valued to high. It seems to me that going to eBay and finding several
comppleted auctions for the same items would be a valid method of
finding the true value, at least for items where shipping & handling
were not material. Small collectibles for example. What we're finding
is several items were eBay has them about 70% less than the
appraisal. The appraiser doesn't feel that eBay is the best
marketplace, though he won't say where to find this other market place
(getting a bit defensive). So he seems to be negotiating on some of
the items. So what would be the best recourse here? Can we pull some
of the items out of the estate and have them evaluated by someone
else? I really don't want to start completely over, both for time and
cost.

Second, if we just sell the itmes before probate is over, can we just
claim the value that they sold for? There seems to be some question
if we're suppose to sell anything before probate is over.

Last, what about donated items? There are at least a couple of items
that we think are junk, but the appraiser has put a high value on. If
we just want to give it to goodwill rather than bother to sell it,
would goodwill give us an estimate on the value, or do we have to
accept the appraiser's value on donated items as well?

Thanks for your time.

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Posted by dpb on April 3, 2008, 2:00 pm
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 blaha@triad.rr.com wrote:
> I'm having a problem with the appraisal of my mother's estate, and
> thought some folks here may have an opinion.
>
> First, there are several items that we believe the appraiser has
> valued to high. It seems to me that going to eBay and finding several
> comppleted auctions for the same items would be a valid method of
> finding the true value, at least for items where shipping & handling
> were not material. Small collectibles for example. What we're finding
> is several items were eBay has them about 70% less than the
> appraisal. ...

My opinion would rely first on question -- is there sufficient value
here that the estate is over the exclusionary amount so there is any tax
liability, anyway? And, if so, is the value of these items sufficient
to reduce it that significantly?

As for eBay being an acceptable arbiter of value, if the items were of
much value one wouldn't think there would be very many for comparison
purposes being sold, so that validates at least somewhat in my mind that
they're probably not that valuable. I'd want more than 2/3 closed sales
and demonstrable that they really are the same items in similar
condition before going that route. The question also would be as to
whether there is indeed more value in the items as a collection rather
than individual pieces or there is a single piece in the collection that
is 90% (say) of the value of the entire collection. Far too many
variables to assess.

If the questions in the first paragraph have a positive response, I'd
suggest another appraiser be asked for an opinion on those items. To do
that doesn't require "removing" them from the estate, simply asking for
a second opinion.

Oh, another thought--does the present appraiser have some vested
interest in the value being high?

As for the disposal questions, I'm not aware enough of the legal
ramifications to even speculate -- you need a legal opinion there from
whoever is handling the estate--if it's large enough this is a real tax
question, there must be somebody involved, not a "diy-er".

--

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by BeanTownSteve on April 3, 2008, 6:30 pm
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> SNIP<
>
> Last, what about donated items? There are at least a couple of items
> that we think are junk, but the appraiser has put a high value on. If
> we just want to give it to goodwill rather than bother to sell it,
> would goodwill give us an estimate on the value, or do we have to
> accept the appraiser's value on donated items as well?
>
> << SNIP>>

Can't speak to the rest of what you raised, dpb has done a good job
overall, but generally
Goodwill, Salvation Army etc. won't deliver an estimate of value for
you. They'll provide a
receipt but the valuation is something they stay away from.

The only additional comment is that common sense should come into
play. Are the appraised
values high or low relative to what? Opinions? Based on? Fair Market
Value (or "worth") is what a
knowledgeable and willing buyer pays a knowledgeable and willing
seller.

The other point raised by dbp is very vaild. If the entire amount of
the esate is below the exclusion level,
unless your state weighs heavy on taxation, is it 'worth' getting
"into" it with the appraiser?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by blaha on April 4, 2008, 4:29 pm
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> > SNIP<
>
> > Last, what about donated items?  There are at least a couple of items
> > that we think are junk, but theappraiserhas put a high value on.  If
> > we just want to give it to goodwill rather than bother to sell it,
> > would goodwill give us an estimate on the value, or do we have to
> > accept theappraiser'svalue on donated items as well?
>
> > << SNIP>>
>
> Can't speak to the rest of what you raised, dpb has done a good job
> overall, but generally
> Goodwill, Salvation Army etc. won't deliver an estimate of value for
> you.  They'll provide a
> receipt but the valuation is something they stay away from.
>
> The only additional comment is that common sense should come into
> play.  Are the appraised
> values high or low relative to what?  Opinions?  Based on? Fair Market
> Value (or "worth") is what a
> knowledgeable and willing buyer pays a knowledgeable and willing
> seller.
>
> The other point raised by dbp is very vaild.  If the entire amount of
> the esate is below the exclusion level,
> unless your state weighs heavy on taxation, is it 'worth' getting
> "into" it with theappraiser?
>
> --
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
> << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used,   >>
> << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties  >>
> << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer.                  >>
> <<                                                         >>
> <<   The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts   >>
> <<  to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy  >>
> <<                  are atwww.asktax.org.                 >>
> <<         Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved.         >>
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Your right - it may not be worth getting into it with the appraiser.
We are over the exclusion limit, so ther will be a tax bill to pay.
To that extent, there is a desire to reduce the tax bill, but it's a
smuch the principle of the situation as anything else. I've got a set
of Civil War books, the appraiser says is worth $1500. I can see the
same set on eBay for $250. I don't have the time or inclination to
find this elusive market where people will pay $1500 for these books,
but it seems I'm really at the mercy of the appraiser for the value.
No, I don't believe he has any vested interest in pricing them too
high. In all, it seems we could challenge maybe $3 - $4K in value,
saving 45% in taxes. Not a significant amount as far the whole estate
is concerned, but the $1500 or so in savings is a pretty good hourly
wage for me if it can be saved.

========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Please delete unnecessary text from the prior message when responding.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by dpb on April 4, 2008, 9:03 pm
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blaha@triad.rr.com wrote:
...
> Your right - it may not be worth getting into it with the appraiser.
> We are over the exclusion limit, so ther will be a tax bill to pay.
> To that extent, there is a desire to reduce the tax bill, but it's a
> smuch the principle of the situation as anything else. I've got a set
> of Civil War books, the appraiser says is worth $1500. I can see the
> same set on eBay for $250. I don't have the time or inclination to
> find this elusive market where people will pay $1500 for these books,
> but it seems I'm really at the mercy of the appraiser for the value.
> No, I don't believe he has any vested interest in pricing them too
> high. In all, it seems we could challenge maybe $3 - $4K in value,
> saving 45% in taxes. Not a significant amount as far the whole estate
> is concerned, but the $1500 or so in savings is a pretty good hourly
> wage for me if it can be saved.
...
Don't see why you're hostage to the appraiser if you have valid other
data (how comparable the eBay listings are to what you have would be at
least one question as previously noted), but he has an opinion; you have
an opinion.

The executor should be able to decide whose data to use in compiling the
information for the estate return--don't see there's any reason you
would have to use the appraiser's figures alone.

Again, whether there's sufficient to be saved for the trouble is another
call.

--

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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