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Posted by Seth on April 17, 2008, 1:39 pm
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>One can simply look for big ticket items on ebay (BMWs, plasma TVs,
>etc) and see that these items routinely sell for less than average
>prices.
One can look for similar items (TVs, cameras, computers) at buy.com,
amazon.com, froogle.google.com, and even woot.com and see that they
routinely sell for "less than average prices". Does that mean that
FMV for a book is "publisher's list" and Amazon is "wrong"?
Seth
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Posted by kastnna on April 18, 2008, 12:29 pm
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On Apr 17, 12:39 pm, se...@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
>
> >One can simply look for big ticket items on ebay (BMWs, plasma TVs,
> >etc) and see that these items routinely sell for less than average
> >prices.
>
> One can look for similar items (TVs, cameras, computers) at buy.com,
> amazon.com, froogle.google.com, and even woot.com and see that they
> routinely sell for "less than average prices". Does that mean that
> FMV for a book is "publisher's list" and Amazon is "wrong"?
I never said that FMV should be the "publishers list", nor did I say
Amazon is "wrong". You're making inferences that aren't supported by
my statements.
Online retailers constitute a PORTION of the market only. FMV is
decided by the market, not a single or small number of transactions.
If online retailers provide the bulk of the product, then FMV may, in
fact, be very near online prices. If online retailers constitute only
a small percentage of a product offering then FMV for that market may
be no where near the online retailers price. As usual, it depends.
Originally this thread focused on the validity of ebay auctions being
representative of FMV. Apparently you have now expanded the debate to
include all online retailers. While ALL online retailers may
cumulatively come closer to reaching average FMV (depending on the
specifics) it doesn't change the original discussion.
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<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
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<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
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Posted by Seth on April 22, 2008, 12:17 pm
Please log in for more thread options >On Apr 17, 12:39 pm, se...@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
>> In article
>> >One can simply look for big ticket items on ebay (BMWs, plasma TVs,
>> >etc) and see that these items routinely sell for less than average
>> >prices.
>>
>> One can look for similar items (TVs, cameras, computers) at buy.com,
>> amazon.com, froogle.google.com, and even woot.com and see that they
>> routinely sell for "less than average prices". Does that mean that
>> FMV for a book is "publisher's list" and Amazon is "wrong"?
>
>I never said that FMV should be the "publishers list", nor did I say
>Amazon is "wrong". You're making inferences that aren't supported by
>my statements.
You said that some items routinely sell for less than average on eBay,
to support your claim that eBay isn't representative. (Other items
routinely sell for more than average there; I've seen a book sell for
$80 while it was still in print from the publisher for $35.)
Half of all sales are at less than the median price for the item, by
definition.
>Online retailers constitute a PORTION of the market only. FMV is
>decided by the market, not a single or small number of transactions.
The definition of FMV is in terms of "a buyer" and "a seller", not
"the totality of the market". Yes, that means that one item will have
a lot of different prices, all of which are FMV.
>If online retailers provide the bulk of the product, then FMV may, in
>fact, be very near online prices. If online retailers constitute only
>a small percentage of a product offering then FMV for that market may
>be no where near the online retailers price. As usual, it depends.
FMV is defined for an item, not a market.
>Originally this thread focused on the validity of ebay auctions being
>representative of FMV. Apparently you have now expanded the debate to
>include all online retailers.
That was in response to your claim that eBay didn't matter because its
prices were often lower than "average". I pointed out that there are
lots of other places with the same property.
Seth
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<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
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<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
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Posted by Drew Edmundson on April 16, 2008, 5:49 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:31:55 EDT, sethb@panix.com (Seth)
wrote:
>
>>From the charitable contribution regulations Reg §
>>1.170A-1(c)(2) "The fair market value is the price at which
>>the property would change hands between a willing buyer and
>>a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy
>>or sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant
>>facts." Note "no compulsion" in the regulation. So motive
>>is a key element. The law is the law and telling me how the
>>law should be doesn't help. But you have gone off on a
>>tangent. Appraisal from a qualified appraiser trumps an
>>eBay listing.
>
>What about an eBay _sale_? The eBay sale meets the definition in the
>regulations, and I don't see anything in the quoted regulations about
>a qualified appraiser trumping the definition.
Lets be realistic. Because some stranger says the price is
one thing and an expert says something else, the stranger
somehow trumps the expert? Common sense says that the
expert wins and the courts support common sense. Find some
cases that support your point or some other reference.
Drew Edmundson, CPA
Cary, NC
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Drew Edmundson, CPA
Cary, NC
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<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
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<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
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Posted by Seth on April 17, 2008, 12:59 am
Please log in for more thread options >On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:31:55 EDT, sethb@panix.com (Seth)
>wrote:
>>What about an eBay _sale_? The eBay sale meets the definition in the
>>regulations, and I don't see anything in the quoted regulations about
>>a qualified appraiser trumping the definition.
>
>Lets be realistic. Because some stranger says the price is
>one thing and an expert says something else, the stranger
>somehow trumps the expert?
I don't see two people saying. I see one person saying, and one
actual transaction (unless you consider eBay's reporting of prices to
be the word of an unreliable stranger).
Again, the regs _define_ Fair Market Value as the price a willing
buyer and seller would agree to. On the one hand, we have a willing
buyer and seller, and the price they actually agreed to. On the other
hand, we have an "expert" who claims they should have agreed to some
other price.
Seth
--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
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