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Generation Skipping Trusts: opinions?

 

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Subject Author Date
Generation Skipping Trusts: opinions? nomail1983 01-31-2007
Posted by Stuart A. Bronstein on February 10, 2007, 6:24 am
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> There's 2 considerations here. 1. You presume you are the
> only skipped generation and your children the final
> beneficiaries and will get the money when you die, or when
> they reach 35 or 40 or some other arbitrary age. 2. Better
> yet, make them ALL skipped generations, you, your children,
> your grandchildren, great grandchildren. etc. etc. It's
> called a Dynasty Trust.

But don't forget the rule against perpetuities. The trust
must terminate at some point and the property distributed to
the heirs at that point. The amount of time is not specific
in terms of numbers, but is calculated by adding 21 years to
the date of death of the last person to die out of a
specified group.

Stu

Moderator:
21 years bewteen deaths. I can live with that.

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Posted by Drew Edmundson on February 12, 2007, 12:23 am
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>> There's 2 considerations here. 1. You presume you are the
>> only skipped generation and your children the final
>> beneficiaries and will get the money when you die, or when
>> they reach 35 or 40 or some other arbitrary age. 2. Better
>> yet, make them ALL skipped generations, you, your children,
>> your grandchildren, great grandchildren. etc. etc. It's
>> called a Dynasty Trust.

> But don't forget the rule against perpetuities. The trust
> must terminate at some point and the property distributed to
> the heirs at that point. The amount of time is not specific
> in terms of numbers, but is calculated by adding 21 years to
> the date of death of the last person to die out of a
> specified group.

Some states, Alaska comes to mind, allow trusts to continue
for an unlimited amount of time. Just do an Internet search
on "dynasty trust" for more information. One of the first
hits I got said there are 13 states that now allow them.
One does not have to be a resident of these states to
establish a dynasty trust.

--
Drew Edmundson, CPA
Cary, NC

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

Posted by Stuart A. Bronstein on February 13, 2007, 1:30 am
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>> But don't forget the rule against perpetuities. The trust
>> must terminate at some point and the property distributed to
>> the heirs at that point. The amount of time is not specific
>> in terms of numbers, but is calculated by adding 21 years to
>> the date of death of the last person to die out of a
>> specified group.

> Some states, Alaska comes to mind, allow trusts to continue
> for an unlimited amount of time. Just do an Internet search
> on "dynasty trust" for more information. One of the first
> hits I got said there are 13 states that now allow them.
> One does not have to be a resident of these states to
> establish a dynasty trust.

I did a google search on dynasty trusts. The first three
links didn't work - there was nothing there. The fourth
link was to a page of information that was by someone who
had no clue what he was talking about.

I also checked the Alaska law on the subject. They appear
to still follow the rule against perpetutities. The
difference is that normally the rule works prospectively.
That is to say that you need to be able to determine who
will be the beneficiaries and when the trust will terminate,
at the time it is created.

In Alaska, and several other states, the rule works
retroactively. That is to say that they take a wait and see
approach. The rule does not void trusts based on
information had when they are created, but later on as time
goes by.

But the trusts still must terminate within the time
specified by the rule.

Stu

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

Posted by Drew Edmundson on February 13, 2007, 5:22 pm
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>>> But don't forget the rule against perpetuities. The trust
>>> must terminate at some point and the property distributed to
>>> the heirs at that point. The amount of time is not specific
>>> in terms of numbers, but is calculated by adding 21 years to
>>> the date of death of the last person to die out of a
>>> specified group.

>> Some states, Alaska comes to mind, allow trusts to continue
>> for an unlimited amount of time. Just do an Internet search
>> on "dynasty trust" for more information. One of the first
>> hits I got said there are 13 states that now allow them.
>> One does not have to be a resident of these states to
>> establish a dynasty trust.

> I did a google search on dynasty trusts. The first three
> links didn't work - there was nothing there. The fourth
> link was to a page of information that was by someone who
> had no clue what he was talking about.
>
> I also checked the Alaska law on the subject. They appear
> to still follow the rule against perpetutities. The
> difference is that normally the rule works prospectively.
> That is to say that you need to be able to determine who
> will be the beneficiaries and when the trust will terminate,
> at the time it is created.
>
> In Alaska, and several other states, the rule works
> retroactively. That is to say that they take a wait and see
> approach. The rule does not void trusts based on
> information had when they are created, but later on as time
> goes by.
>
> But the trusts still must terminate within the time
> specified by the rule.

That is not my understanding. Hopefully our esteemed moderator
will allow this link through (it is to dook university):

https://www.law.duke.edu/journals/alr/downloads/alr18p253.pdf

Note on page 4 of the PDF the line: "On April 2, 1997,
Alaska effectively eliminated its Rule Against Perpetuities
with regard to beneficial interests held in trust, but only
where all or part of the income or principal of the trust
could be distributed at the trustee's discretion to a person
who was living when the trust was created."

Perhaps the author is incorrect or perhaps we are
disagreeing on semantics (he does say "effectively"). I am
not an attorney, I was just relaying the information I have
been told and read from those who are attorneys.

--
Drew Edmundson, CPA
Cary, NC

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

Posted by Stuart A. Bronstein on February 13, 2007, 11:07 pm
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>> I also checked the Alaska law on the subject. They appear
>> to still follow the rule against perpetutities. The
>> difference is that normally the rule works prospectively.
>> That is to say that you need to be able to determine who
>> will be the beneficiaries and when the trust will terminate,
>> at the time it is created.

> That is not my understanding. Hopefully our esteemed moderator
> will allow this link through (it is to dook university):
>
> https://www.law.duke.edu/journals/alr/downloads/alr18p253.pdf

Very interesting. I went to look at the Alaska statutes -
they did indeed abolish the common law rule against
perpetuities. They created something like it, but it could
well allow the trust to law 1000 years rather than 100.
It's all pretty complicated, and I didn't take the time to
become an expert.

The reason for generation skipping trusts in the first place
was to avoid the wealthy setting up these kinds of trusts.
But I suppose the exemption is large enough that it could
still make sense to set up an Alaskan trust under some
circumstances.

Stu

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

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