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Posted by Tom on June 1, 2008, 8:39 pm
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I'm 63 y/o federal employee with a regularr IRA that I opened in 1996 and a
ROTH IRA I opened in 1999. I cannot find the orginal documentation for
either of these accounts.
I do have an Excel spreadsheet that indicates I made the following deposits:
9/3/1996 deposit reg IRA
4/8/1999 deposit ROTH IRA
4/8/1999 deposit reg IRA
12/13/1999 transferred from reg acct to ROTH IRA
4/17/2000 deposit ROTH IRA
4/13/2001 deposit ROTH IRA for year 2000
4/13/2001 deposit ROTH IRA for year 2001
4/1/2008 deposit regular IRA (do have form 5498 for this deposit)
I don't believe, at least on some of these desposits. I included deposit
documentation when I filed my taxes. What do I need to do to straightned
all of this out so i can start making transactions of these accouts.? Do I
need to get duplicate copies of my tax returns for the above years to see if
i included IRA/ROTH documentation? Do I need full copies? My brokerage
account has changed hands three times and the current holder, Ameritrade,
tells me they don't have documetation for desposits I made when the avcoount
was held by the previous account holders.
Specific ROTH questions:
After reading the following article I 'm wondering can I withdraw profits
from my ROTH IRA without penalties because I'm older than 59 1/2 and I had
the account for more that five years? Can I withdraw profits even if they
haven't been in the account for five years per the following statment?
" . . . But there is a five-year waiting period for withdrawals of any
earnings. The
five-year clock for earnings on regular contributions starts the year you
open your first Roth IRA, and it doesn't reset each time you make a
contribution. You also have to turn 59½ years old to avoid a 10% penalty for
early withdrawals on any earnings, along with income tax. . . "
Today, 5/31, in the WSJ, page B2, there is a good article, Contributions
Methods Sway Roth Withdrawal Rules, which raises several interesting points
**************************************************************************************************************************
Contribution Methods Sway Roth Withdrawal Rules
By KELLY GREENE
May 31, 2008; Page B2
We couldn't contribute to our Roth IRA this year because of the income
limits. I noted that we could contribute to a nondeductible IRA and then
later convert it to a Roth, assuming we are under the $100,000 income limit
or wait until 2010.
My question: Since we already have the Roth accounts open, am I right in
assuming there is no five-year waiting period to make penalty-free
withdrawals? Also, am I right in assuming that you can convert a
nondeductible IRA into an existing Roth IRA?
--Bill Uhr, Falls Church, Va.
The way the five-year waiting period works depends on the way you're putting
money into a Roth individual retirement account. There's one set of rules
for making penalty-free withdrawals if you are contributing to a Roth IRA,
and another set for Roth IRA conversions.
Roth IRAs are attractive because they have no withdrawal requirements for
the account's owner, along with no tax on future earnings on their assets,
unlike traditional IRAs. As you note, there are income limits for making
Roth IRA contributions. For 2008, your income must fall below $101,000 for
an individual or $159,000 for couples filing jointly. If your income exceeds
those limits, though, you may still be able to make a partial contribution
(described in Publication 590 at www.irs.gov).
There are no income limits for contributions to a nondeductible, traditional
IRA, which you could convert to a Roth later. (One note: If you have pretax
money in any IRA, you would owe some income tax on the conversion.
Publication 590 explains how to do the math.) This year and next, you can
convert a traditional IRA to a Roth if your modified adjusted gross income
is no more than $100,000 a year, either for an individual or married couple
filing jointly. Modified adjusted gross income is essentially all of your
income except for that from any Roth IRA conversions and a few other
exceptions. Publication 590 includes a work sheet explaining how to
calculate this amount, along with more about what does and doesn't count
toward modified adjusted gross income.
Starting in 2010, there are no income limits for Roth conversions. And in
2010 only, you can spread the income and accompanying tax from a Roth
conversion across 2011 and 2012.
Once you've socked away money in a Roth IRA, either through a regular
contribution or by converting other IRA assets, when can you take the money
out without a penalty? You can withdraw your original contributions at any
time with no penalty -- an advantage that a lot of people don't realize. But
there is a five-year waiting period for withdrawals of any earnings. The
five-year clock for earnings on regular contributions starts the year you
open your first Roth IRA, and it doesn't reset each time you make a
contribution. You also have to turn 59½ years old to avoid a 10% penalty for
early withdrawals on any earnings, along with income tax.
There's a separate five-year clock for assets you convert to a Roth account
from other retirement accounts, says Ed Slott, an IRA consultant in
Rockville Centre, N.Y. You have to hold those specific assets in a Roth for
five years or until you turn 59½, whichever comes first, to make
penalty-free withdrawals.
Why the separate five-year waiting period? The federal government wants to
make sure Roth conversions aren't used as a penalty-free way to raid
traditional IRAs early, Mr. Slott says.
--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
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Posted by Bill on June 2, 2008, 9:45 am
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yahoo@earthlink.com (Tom) posted:
>I'm 63 y/o federal employee with a regularr
>IRA that I opened in 1996 and a ROTH IRA I
>opened in 1999. I cannot find the orginal
>documentation for either of these accounts.
>I do have an Excel spreadsheet that indicates
>I made the following deposits:
(Remainder omitted for brevity)
Tom, your post was just too lengthy to deal with every single comment
and issue. Here are some generalities, which should cover most of your
questions:
First, your Roth IRA account(s) should have been clearly segregated and
named as such from the beginning. When changing brokers, the transfer
of a Roth IRA would have clearly been noted, and that account titled
separately as "Roth IRA FBO Tom" -- and the same concept applies to any
traditional IRA accounts.
It is frankly inconceivable that any broker would not have records of
these segregated account transfers, if they were properly designated.
You should contact your broker from the 1996 and 1999 periods in
question, citing your account numbers, address at the time, SSN, etc.
Then, inquire about the balance in the accounts at the time of transfer.
Of course, any subsequent brokers could then be queried regarding the
associated information you derive from the startup broker.
Separately, if you don't retain copies of your own tax returns, it is
possible to obtain copies from the IRS. Check the website at
www.irs.gov, and search for "obtaining copies of old returns." (There
will be a minor charge.)
Now, dealing with your specific question, if your Roth IRA was properly
established, titled and segregated over the years and all subsequent
contributions and conversions were added to the same account, there is
no problem with your withdrawing funds now -- since your age is greater
than 59 1/2, and the account was started in 1999.
That said, your lack of records is astonishing. So the first step is
clearly to rebuild that record base, using the method noted above. Your
current broker should be willing to assist you in this endeavor.
Also, you should obtain IRS Pub 590, and read the relevant sections on
Roth IRAs. They provide many examples -- and doubtless, some will cover
your past actions.
Good luck. In the future, I recommend you preserve copies of your
returns and associated records for a minimum of 7 years -- and _for as
long as necessary_ in the case of home purchase, stock purchase or IRA
contributions/conversions.
(After 7 years, I personally retain a copy of the actual forms --
discarding miscellaneous records not mentioned above.)
Bill
--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
|
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Posted by Tom on June 8, 2008, 7:56 pm
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Hi Bill,
> Tom, your post was just too lengthy to deal with every single comment
> and issue. Here are some generalities, which should cover most of your
> questions:
sorry
> First, your Roth IRA account(s) should have been clearly segregated and
> named as such from the beginning.
The accounts are separated
When changing brokers, the transfer
> of a Roth IRA would have clearly been noted, and that account titled
> separately as "Roth IRA FBO Tom" -- and the same concept applies to any
> traditional IRA accounts.
> It is frankly inconceivable that any broker would not have records of
> these segregated account transfers, if they were properly designated.
I've been through three brokers but each was bought out by the other.
It surprises me too they can't produce the records.
> You should contact your broker from the 1996 and 1999 periods in
> question, citing your account numbers, address at the time, SSN, etc.
> Then, inquire about the balance in the accounts at the time of transfer.
>
> Of course, any subsequent brokers could then be queried regarding the
> associated information you derive from the startup broker.
>
> Separately, if you don't retain copies of your own tax returns, it is
> possible to obtain copies from the IRS. Check the website at
> www.irs.gov, and search for "obtaining copies of old returns." (There
> will be a minor charge.)
I'll save copies and one copy in my safe desposit box.
>
> Now, dealing with your specific question, if your Roth IRA was properly
> established, titled and segregated over the years and all subsequent
> contributions and conversions were added to the same account, there is
> no problem with your withdrawing funds now -- since your age is greater
> than 59 1/2, and the account was started in 1999.
OK
>
> That said, your lack of records is astonishing. So the first step is
> clearly to rebuild that record base, using the method noted above. Your
> current broker should be willing to assist you in this endeavor.
Will do.
>
> Also, you should obtain IRS Pub 590, and read the relevant sections on
> Roth IRAs. They provide many examples -- and doubtless, some will cover
> your past actions.
Will do.
>
> Good luck. In the future, I recommend you preserve copies of your
> returns and associated records for a minimum of 7 years -- and _for as
> long as necessary_ in the case of home purchase, stock purchase or IRA
> contributions/conversions.
>
> (After 7 years, I personally retain a copy of the actual forms --
> discarding miscellaneous records not mentioned above.)
>
on 4/17/08 I made a $5,000.00 for 2007 deposit to my IRA account. Now that
I have an understanding about my retirement accounts how can I reconsitute
they IRA desposit to my ROTH account?
Thanks afain,
Tom
--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
|
|
Posted by Phil Marti on June 9, 2008, 12:06 am
Please log in for more thread options "Tom" wrote:
> on 4/17/08 I made a $5,000.00 for 2007 deposit to my IRA account. Now
> that
> I have an understanding about my retirement accounts how can I reconsitute
> they IRA desposit to my ROTH account?
You can "recharacterize" it and the earnings on it from traditional to Roth
until 10/15/2008. You can read about it in Pub 590 and your custodian can
provide the paperwork and walk you through the process.
--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD
--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
|
|
Posted by Tom on June 9, 2008, 12:36 pm
Please log in for more thread options
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
>> Tom, your post was just too lengthy to deal with every single comment
>> and issue. Here are some generalities, which should cover most of your
>> questions:
>
> sorry
>
>> First, your Roth IRA account(s) should have been clearly segregated and
>> named as such from the beginning.
>
> The accounts are separated
>
> When changing brokers, the transfer
>> of a Roth IRA would have clearly been noted, and that account titled
>> separately as "Roth IRA FBO Tom" -- and the same concept applies to any
>> traditional IRA accounts.
>> It is frankly inconceivable that any broker would not have records of
>> these segregated account transfers, if they were properly designated.
>
> I've been through three brokers but each was bought out by the other.
> It surprises me too they can't produce the records.
>
>> You should contact your broker from the 1996 and 1999 periods in
>> question, citing your account numbers, address at the time, SSN, etc.
>> Then, inquire about the balance in the accounts at the time of transfer.
>>
>> Of course, any subsequent brokers could then be queried regarding the
>> associated information you derive from the startup broker.
>>
>> Separately, if you don't retain copies of your own tax returns, it is
>> possible to obtain copies from the IRS. Check the website at
>> www.irs.gov, and search for "obtaining copies of old returns." (There
>> will be a minor charge.)
>
> I'll save copies and one copy in my safe desposit box.
>>
>> Now, dealing with your specific question, if your Roth IRA was properly
>> established, titled and segregated over the years and all subsequent
>> contributions and conversions were added to the same account, there is
>> no problem with your withdrawing funds now -- since your age is greater
>> than 59 1/2, and the account was started in 1999.
>
> OK
>
>>
>> That said, your lack of records is astonishing. So the first step is
>> clearly to rebuild that record base, using the method noted above. Your
>> current broker should be willing to assist you in this endeavor.
>
> Will do.
>
>>
>> Also, you should obtain IRS Pub 590, and read the relevant sections on
>> Roth IRAs. They provide many examples -- and doubtless, some will cover
>> your past actions.
>
> Will do.
>>
>> Good luck. In the future, I recommend you preserve copies of your
>> returns and associated records for a minimum of 7 years -- and _for as
>> long as necessary_ in the case of home purchase, stock purchase or IRA
>> contributions/conversions.
I just found original forms #5498 from the year 2000 show showing IRA ROTH
deposits.
>>
>> (After 7 years, I personally retain a copy of the actual forms --
>> discarding miscellaneous records not mentioned above.)
>>
> on 4/17/08 I made a $5,000.00 for 2007 deposit to my IRA account. Now
> that
> I have an understanding about my retirement accounts how can I reconsitute
> they IRA desposit to my ROTH account?
>
> Thanks afain,
>
> Tom
--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
|
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