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Kentucky muni bond interest case decided in favor of states

 

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Subject Author Date
Kentucky muni bond interest case decided in favor of states Mark Bole 05-19-2008
Posted by Kurt Ullman on May 22, 2008, 11:27 am
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> In my opinion he has no respect for precedent because he won't follow
> any rule or ruling that doesn't agree with his personal view of
> constitutional jurisprudence. It doesn't matter that something has
> been an accepted rule for many years. It doesn't matter that great
> thinkers believe the Constitution means something that conflicts with
> Thomas's ideas. To him he's the only one in the world whose opinion
> counts.
>
Generally those intent on precendent are only True Believers when
something they agree with is up for decision. Otherwise, many (no matter
which precendent one is holding sancrosanct from whichever political
view) precedent is merely getting in the way of Making Needed Changes.

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Posted by Elle on May 22, 2008, 11:29 am
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> In my opinion [J. Thomas] has no respect for precedent
> because he won't follow
> any rule or ruling that doesn't agree with his personal
> view of
> constitutional jurisprudence. It doesn't matter that
> something has
> been an accepted rule for many years. It doesn't matter
> that great
> thinkers believe the Constitution means something that
> conflicts with
> Thomas's ideas. To him he's the only one in the world
> whose opinion
> counts.

To suggest a Justice ignore his or her own logic and
interpretations and defer to others is inconsistent with why
we have nine Justices; judicial tenure; a multi-leveled
federal court system; etc. Stare decisis is a strongly
preferred guide, but history shows that the Court can and
will, after careful consideration, overturn past decisions.
The law ultimately reflects society's mores, which do
change, surely as you know.

One cannot single out one Justice for not following stare
decisis (from time to time) when so many other Justices have
done likewise, and often to good effect, given our bumbling
society. If one has a problem with Justice XYZ, then the
solution is to elect a President and a Senate who will
nominate and confirm ABC. The problem has never been J.
Thomas but instead all those who supported Bush 1 and those
senators who voted to confirm Thomas, which means the
problem lies in those who backed Bush 1 and these senators.

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<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
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Posted by Stuart Bronstein on May 22, 2008, 1:01 pm
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>> In my opinion [J. Thomas] has no respect for precedent
>> because he won't follow any rule or ruling that doesn't
>> agree with his personal view of constitutional
>> jurisprudence. It doesn't matter that something has
>> been an accepted rule for many years. It doesn't matter
>> that great thinkers believe the Constitution means something
>> that conflicts with Thomas's ideas. To him he's the only
>> one in the world whose opinion counts.
>
> To suggest a Justice ignore his or her own logic and
> interpretations and defer to others is inconsistent with why
> we have nine Justices; judicial tenure; a multi-leveled
> federal court system; etc. Stare decisis is a strongly
> preferred guide, but history shows that the Court can and
> will, after careful consideration, overturn past decisions.
> The law ultimately reflects society's mores, which do
> change, surely as you know.

There are certain conventions in the law that are generally accepted as
important in our legal system. One is that there be predictability in
the meaning of our laws. Except when an established interpretation of
a law is manifestly harmful to society, changing the law is up to the
legislature, not to the court.

Additionally, as you say, times change and the interpretations of laws
change based on society's beliefs and past experience.

But Thomas seems to reject all of that. He rejects predictability, he
rejects the concept of changing rules only when necessary. And he
rejects the idea that times change and that rules should change, basing
his decisions on what he thinks the rule should have been in 1789.

> One cannot single out one Justice for not following stare
> decisis (from time to time) when so many other Justices have
> done likewise, and often to good effect, given our bumbling
> society.

Certainly on occasion other justices have voted to over turn precedent.
But most often they attempt to follow precedent and distinguish cases
based on other facts or applicable laws. They believe in
predictability and don't throw out the whole system based on their
beliefs that they are the one true source of knowledge, rather than
interpreters of it.

Stu

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
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Posted by Elle on May 22, 2008, 1:44 pm
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> There are certain conventions in the law that are
> generally accepted as
> important in our legal system. One is that there be
> predictability in
> the meaning of our laws. Except when an established
> interpretation of
> a law is manifestly harmful to society, changing the law
> is up to the
> legislature, not to the court.

Changing the law can be up to the people (via the
Constitutional Amendment process); the courts; to some
extent executive branch agencies; and so on and so forth
blah blah pedantry. We disagree.

Your generalization on Thomas is noted. This has become
political and off-topic.

========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Since this has gotten too far from taxes and is quite off topic,
let's end this discusion.

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<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Mark Bole on May 22, 2008, 12:17 pm
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Katie wrote:
I think that's one reason why J.
> Thomas says he would never apply the dormant commerce clause under any
> circumstances. As far as he's concerned, the states can do whatever
> they want under the commerce clause as long as Congress doesn't enact
> a law preventing it.

It's probably too late to move this good dialog regarding a Supreme
Court justice over to misc.legal.moderated, but if the replies not
related to taxes continue, please consider putting an "OT: blah blah"
notation (OT = "off topic") at the beginning of the subject line to
alert readers.

Yours for making the moderator's lives easier,

-Mark Bole

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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