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Re: Retained life estate

 

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Subject Author Date
Re: Retained life estate Stuart A. Bronstein 04-11-2006
Posted by Stuart A. Bronstein on April 11, 2006, 3:31 am
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ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
> spamtrap@sbcglobal.net (Stuart A. Bronstein) writes:

>> This is the approach taken with joint tenancy property. If
>> one joint tenancy provides all the consideration for buying
>> the property in the first place, it's all in her estate if
>> she dies first. If her son/joint tenant were to die first,
>> none of it would be considered part of his estate.
>>
>> The joint tenancy rule, however, is based on the specific
>> provisions of section 2036.

> Is there any interaction with these provisions in
> determining whether a completed gift is made at the time mom
> changes title to joint tenancy with son for no
> consideration? Or is that a separate facts and
> circumstances question?

Under section 2036, for joint tenancies between unmarried
people ownership is based solely on the consideration each
paid. When the gift is complete is irrelevant for this
purpose because even when there has been a completed gift
it's treated as if it didn't happen for tax purposes.

Stu

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Posted by Drew Edmundson on April 12, 2006, 11:09 pm
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snip

>> Under section 2036, for joint tenancies between unmarried
>> people ownership is based solely on the consideration each
>> paid. When the gift is complete is irrelevant for this
>> purpose because even when there has been a completed gift
>> it's treated as if it didn't happen for tax purposes.

> 2036 doesn't discuss joint tenancies. It discusses retained
> life estates. The two are different. Joint tenancies are
> discussed in 2040.

I see I didn't transition very well here. The prior
paragraph mentions the estate tax Code sections on joint
tenancy and retained life estates. The next paragraphs
discuss the gift tax Regulations on joint tenancies. The
actual gift tax Code section is obviously 2511. Sorry about
that.

> The gift is considered as complete in many, but not all,
> joint tenancy situations. It just is still drawn back into
> the estate if the grantor of the joint interest provided all
> the consideration. Then a credit is computed for the prior
> gift tax paid, if any.
>
> See 25.2511-1(h)(4) and (5). In 25.2511-1(h)(4) the
> original owner adds a joint owner to his bank account. The
> original owner is still considered the owner of the entire
> account for gift tax purposes, until the new joint owner
> withdraws funds. This is because the original owner can
> unilaterally take back the gift.
>
> In 25.2511-1(h)(5) the original owner adds a joint owner to
> real estate. This is a completed gift for gift tax purposes
> but not for estate tax purposes (see 2040). That is why a
> credit is allowed for the previously paid gift tax, to avoid
> the double tax. In both examples I am assuming that the two
> joint owners are not spouses. Rules for spouses are
> different.

---
Drew Edmundson, CPA
Cary, NC

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only >>
<< and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
<< messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

Posted by Stuart A. Bronstein on April 12, 2006, 11:09 pm
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>> Under section 2036, for joint tenancies between unmarried
>> people ownership is based solely on the consideration each
>> paid. When the gift is complete is irrelevant for this
>> purpose because even when there has been a completed gift
>> it's treated as if it didn't happen for tax purposes.

> 2036 doesn't discuss joint tenancies. It discusses retained
> life estates. The two are different. Joint tenancies are
> discussed in 2040.

Whoops! You're right.

Stu

<< ======================================================= >>
<< The foregoing is intended for educational purposes only >>
<< and does NOT constitute legal OR professional advice. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting >>
<< messages to this newsgroup are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2006) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ======================================================= >>

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