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Subject Author Date
Roth income/gains tax free? Vic Dura 11-10-2007
Posted by Vic Dura on November 10, 2007, 5:20 am
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I have been told that the income and gains from the assets
within a Roth-IRA are, like the assets themselves, not taxed
upon withdrawal after "5-year aging". Is this correct?

I've also been told that the "5-year aging" of income/gains
only applies to the initial assets contributed to the Roth
when it is established, and not to subsequent assets added
to the Roth at a later date. Is this also correct?

Thanks for any comments. I really need a reality check on
this.

--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

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Posted by Vic Dura on November 11, 2007, 4:21 am
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> I have been told that the income and gains from the assets
> within a Roth-IRA are, like the assets themselves, not taxed
> upon withdrawal after "5-year aging". Is this correct?
>
> I've also been told that the "5-year aging" of income/gains
> only applies to the initial assets contributed to the Roth
> when it is established, and not to subsequent assets added
> to the Roth at a later date. Is this also correct?
>
> Thanks for any comments. I really need a reality check on
> this.

Excuse me for replying to my own post, but I don't think I
did a good job of presenting my question.

What I am considering is converting an existing Traditional
IRA to a Roth by transferring 15% or 20% per year of the
Traditional to the Roth.

What I want to know is are the earnings from ALL
conversions from the Traditional to the Roth subject to
the 5-year aging rule, or does the rule just apply to the
FIRST conversion?

Item-4 below is what's confusing me (quoted from
http://invest-faq.com/cbc/ret-plan-roth-ira.html )

===================

1. Contributions can be withdrawn tax-free and
penalty-free at any time.

2. There is 5-year clock 'A'. Clock 'A' starts on the
first day of the first tax year in which any Roth IRA is
opened and funded.

3. Earnings can be withdrawn tax-free and penalty-free after
Clock 'A' hits 5 years and a qualifying event (such as
turning 59.5, disability, etc.) occurs.

4 Additional 5-year clocks 'B', 'C', etc. start running for
each traditional IRA that is converted to a Roth IRA.
Each clock applies just to that conversion.

===================

Item-4 seems to be referring to multiple Traditionals
converted to multiple Roths, but I'm not sure.

Thanks for any help.

--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Phil Marti on November 12, 2007, 12:11 am
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> What I am considering is converting an existing Traditional
> IRA to a Roth by transferring 15% or 20% per year of the
> Traditional to the Roth.
>
> What I want to know is are the earnings from ALL
> conversions from the Traditional to the Roth subject to
> the 5-year aging rule, or does the rule just apply to the
> FIRST conversion?
>
> Item-4 below is what's confusing me (quoted from
> http://invest-faq.com/cbc/ret-plan-roth-ira.html )

<snip>

> 4 Additional 5-year clocks 'B', 'C', etc. start running for
> each traditional IRA that is converted to a Roth IRA.
> Each clock applies just to that conversion.

That statement is wrong. There is only one 5-year clock for
qualified distributions, and it starts running the tax year
the first Roth contribution, cash or conversion, is made.
See IRS Publication 590.

For people under 59 1/2 and, thus, subject to the premature
distribution penalty there is a separate 5-year clock for
each conversion, but only with respect to the penalty.
(Note that these distributions are not "qualified" even
after 5 years unless one of the other conditions explained
in Pub 590 is met.)

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Mark Bole on November 12, 2007, 12:11 am
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Vic Dura wrote:
[...]
> What I am considering is converting an existing Traditional
> IRA to a Roth by transferring 15% or 20% per year of the
> Traditional to the Roth.
>
> What I want to know is are the earnings from ALL
> conversions from the Traditional to the Roth subject to
> the 5-year aging rule, or does the rule just apply to the
> FIRST conversion?

Please stop confusing earnings with contributions and
conversions. Earnings are taxed and penalized if not
distributed in a qualified fashion.

>
> Item-4 below is what's confusing me (quoted from
> http://invest-faq.com/cbc/ret-plan-roth-ira.html )
[...]
>
> 4 Additional 5-year clocks 'B', 'C', etc. start running for
> each traditional IRA that is converted to a Roth IRA.
> Each clock applies just to that conversion.
>
> ===================
>
> Item-4 seems to be referring to multiple Traditionals
> converted to multiple Roths, but I'm not sure.

Each conversion has its own five year clock. After five
years, you can withdraw the converted amount (but not
necessarily earnings) tax and penalty free, as if it were a
contribution. So, this is a way to get money out of a Trad
IRA without penalty and without meeting any of the other
early distribution exceptions. But of course you did have to
pay tax on it at the beginning of the five year period, when
you converted it to a Roth.

Keeping your IRA money at one institution or spread around
at several is largely irrelevant, other than management fees
and and other benefits related to the balance in your
account at each. Generally speaking, you have one overall
Trad. IRA balance, and one overall Roth IRA balance, no
matter how many "accounts" you have split them into.

-Mark Bole

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Harlan Lunsford on November 12, 2007, 12:11 am
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Vic Dura wrote:

>> I have been told that the income and gains from the assets
>> within a Roth-IRA are, like the assets themselves, not taxed
>> upon withdrawal after "5-year aging". Is this correct?
>>
>> I've also been told that the "5-year aging" of income/gains
>> only applies to the initial assets contributed to the Roth
>> when it is established, and not to subsequent assets added
>> to the Roth at a later date. Is this also correct?
>>
>> Thanks for any comments. I really need a reality check on
>> this.

> Excuse me for replying to my own post, but I don't think I
> did a good job of presenting my question.
>
> What I am considering is converting an existing Traditional
> IRA to a Roth by transferring 15% or 20% per year of the
> Traditional to the Roth.
>
> What I want to know is are the earnings from ALL
> conversions from the Traditional to the Roth subject to
> the 5-year aging rule, or does the rule just apply to the
> FIRST conversion?
>
> Item-4 below is what's confusing me (quoted from
> http://invest-faq.com/cbc/ret-plan-roth-ira.html )
>
> ===================
>
> 1. Contributions can be withdrawn tax-free and
> penalty-free at any time.
>
> 2. There is 5-year clock 'A'. Clock 'A' starts on the
> first day of the first tax year in which any Roth IRA is
> opened and funded.
>
> 3. Earnings can be withdrawn tax-free and penalty-free after
> Clock 'A' hits 5 years and a qualifying event (such as
> turning 59.5, disability, etc.) occurs.
>
> 4 Additional 5-year clocks 'B', 'C', etc. start running for
> each traditional IRA that is converted to a Roth IRA.
> Each clock applies just to that conversion.
>
> ===================
>
> Item-4 seems to be referring to multiple Traditionals
> converted to multiple Roths, but I'm not sure.

Maybe this will lessen your confusion. When you convert,
you pay the tax. Now that the money is in a new and ROTH
account, the clock starts ticking. Don't confuse what your
IRA earns before the conversion and think it mixes with what
the ROTH will earn after conversion.

ChEAr$,
Harlan

<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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