Home Page link  

Section 691(c)

 

Taxes General Forum - Tax professionals meeting place and answers to queries. (Moderated)

 Post an article  get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Section 691(c) blaha 05-03-2008
Posted by Drew.Blaha on May 5, 2008, 2:56 pm
Please log in for more thread options

I'm getting this, slowly.
You said:

> "However, as you suggested that the payments would be RMDs, that
> implies that the ETD would be a fixed number each year as the IRD
> itself would be fixed. "

Yes, the IRD is fixed, in my example $20,000.
Yes, the ETD is fixed at $9000 in my overly simplified example.
That
number can be determined.
If I take the 20K this year, I get $9k itemized misc deduction.

If I put the 20K into a inherited IRA, and would take just the RMD
each year, how do I allocate the $9k over the years? I assume the
IRS
tables will tell me how many years I have to drain the IRA. Do I
just
take a straight line proportion each year, or will it be based on
the
RMD, which I know would vary each year based on investments?

Thank you for all your help, I am trying to learn this stuff.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by D. Stussy on May 5, 2008, 5:28 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> I'm getting this, slowly.
> You said:
>
> > "However, as you suggested that the payments would be RMDs, that
> > implies that the ETD would be a fixed number each year as the IRD
> > itself would be fixed. "
>
> Yes, the IRD is fixed, in my example $20,000.
> Yes, the ETD is fixed at $9000 in my overly simplified example.
> That
> number can be determined.
> If I take the 20K this year, I get $9k itemized misc deduction.
>
> If I put the 20K into a inherited IRA, and would take just the RMD
> each year, how do I allocate the $9k over the years? I assume the
> IRS
> tables will tell me how many years I have to drain the IRA. Do I
> just
> take a straight line proportion each year, or will it be based on
> the
> RMD, which I know would vary each year based on investments?

1) The $20K is ALREADY in an inherited IRA, so what do you mean by
"withdraw and put it into...?"

2) The ETD is based on how much of the IRA you actually withdraw each year.
It is NOT S/L'ed unless that's what you did with the amount actually
withdrawn.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Drew.Blaha on May 6, 2008, 5:50 pm
Please log in for more thread options

> 1)  The $20K is ALREADY in an inherited IRA, so what do you mean by
> "withdraw and put it into...?"
>
> 2)  The ETD is based on how much of the IRA you actually withdraw each year.
> It is NOT S/L'ed unless that's what you did with the amount actually
> withdrawn.


1. You're correct, that was a bad choice of wording for me. I can
close the inherited IRA and take the cash. That would give me a 9K
misc deduction all at once. And, at that point I would have the cash
to put into a Roth IRA. Totally seperate, unlinked transaction, but
that is what I would probably do with the money. I'm not making
enough on my own right now to contribute to an IRA, but if the money
became available, that's what I would do with it.

2. And what is the formula that is used, based on withdrawals? If I
withdrawal 10% of the IRA, do I use up 10% of the 9K deduction I have
available? And the next year, if I withdraw 15%, I use 15% of the
remaining deduction? That seems like a reasonable approach, but I
haven't been able to find the formula in the tax code.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Drew.Blaha on May 3, 2008, 6:26 pm
Please log in for more thread options
On May 3, 1:25 pm, bl...@triad.rr.com wrote:
> Between my tax class and settling my mother's estate, I've been here
> alot lately.
> Thank you all for your help.
>
> Now - with my mother's estate, I am inheriting a traditional IRA
> valued at about 20K.  The plan was to take it and put it into an
> inherited IRA, taking the minimum required distribution each year and
> decaring it on my income taxes.  Now, as I;m stufing for finals, I see
> in my book mention of a "seldom used and usually misunderstood"
> section of the tax code, 691(c), that will allow me to take a misc
> deduction for the amount of tax that is paid by the estate for the
> value of the IRA.  If I understand the book correctly, the estate tax
> paid on the traditional IRA (45% of 20K), could be a deduction on my
> incomce taxes.
>
> However, if I stretch out the IRA, the deduction would have to be
> taken each year based on the amount of my distribution.  The
> calculations sound like they could really get messy.  As such, am I
> better off taking the whole distribution in one year and taking the
> full 45% of 20K as a deduction?
>
> That's what I trying to figure out right now.  Any input would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> ========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
> - it's referred to as 'income in respect of a decedent', and you
> may be right. But it is complicated, and for such a small sum, you may
> want to take the withdrawal. If her estate owes tax, you are suggesting it
> was worth over $2M, in which case you want to focus on the the rest to be
> sure all is done right.
>
> --
> That said, can you give some indication of what the procedure is to calculate
the deduction if I did use an inherited IRA and took the income over time? In
theory I could be a CPA in a year, and should be able to handle these
calculations, but I can't find mention of it anywhere; just that its
'complicated'. I would think it would be good to stretch out the claiming of
taxable income, but if I can get a 45% deduction this year, compared to nothing
over the years because its too complicated to figure, maybe I should take the
lump sum.


--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Similar ThreadsPosted
Section 351 or 354 or Section 721? November 17, 2006, 11:30 pm
Section 121 January 23, 2007, 2:23 am
Section 645 October 26, 2007, 11:51 pm
Re: Section 645 October 28, 2007, 4:04 pm
Re: Section 645 October 29, 2007, 3:32 pm
Re: Section 645 October 30, 2007, 11:47 pm
Re: Is This Section 179 Property? September 7, 2006, 4:24 am
Section 199 Deduction January 24, 2007, 2:34 am
Section 179 Expense January 30, 2007, 10:11 pm
Section 179 carryover April 12, 2007, 12:25 am

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
This site is not affiliated with Intuit - makers of Quickbooks and Quicken software
This site is not affiliated with Sage Software - makers of Peachtree accounting software
XML SitemapXML Sitemap