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Subject Author Date
Single Premium Insurance Tax Question Arthur 05-21-2008
Posted by Arthur on May 21, 2008, 8:51 pm
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In 1989 my mother spent 10,000 dollars on a single premium insurance
policy. Every year, until 2004 she took out some amount which was (As
far as I can tell from the records) slightly less than the interest
amount she accrued. She decided to cash the whole thing in this year.
She received (before taxes) a little over 12K. However, the insurance
company is reporting her taxable gains as about 26K. looking at the
records the 26K = the total she took out, (+ 12K-10K) + the sum of
"Interest Capitalizations"* which total about 14.5K. As far as I can
tell, she never touched the "Interest Capitalizations" but they are
part of her "Loan Balance". Can anyone explain this? Will she have to
pay taxes on 26K worth of income? According to the records, they gave
her about 7K of the 5K and took the rest out for taxes already which
seems rather steep.

*The "Interest Capitalizations" are a series of figures which goes
approximately like this: (dollar figures)
60, 129, 200, 277. 356, 432, 507, 587, 674, 768, 869, 857, 950, 1053,
1,156, 1275, 1271, 1467. This looks like a running total of interest,
but it is the sum of these values that is used to determine the "loan
balance".

Very confused.
Thanks in advance for any insight.

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Posted by kastnna on May 22, 2008, 5:34 pm
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> In 1989 my mother spent 10,000 dollars on a single premium insurance
> policy. Every year, until 2004 she took out some amount which was (As
> far as I can tell from the records) slightly less than the interest
> amount she accrued.  She decided to cash the whole thing in this year.
> She received (before taxes) a little over 12K. However,  the insurance
> company is reporting her taxable gains as about 26K.  looking at the
> records the 26K = the total she took out, (+ 12K-10K) + the sum of
> "Interest Capitalizations"* which total about 14.5K.  As far as I can
> tell, she never touched the "Interest Capitalizations" but they are
> part of her "Loan Balance".  Can anyone explain this? Will she have to
> pay taxes on 26K worth of income? According to the records, they gave
> her about 7K of the 5K and took the rest out for taxes already which
> seems rather steep.
>
> *The "Interest Capitalizations" are a series of figures which  goes
> approximately like this: (dollar figures)
> 60, 129, 200, 277. 356, 432, 507, 587, 674, 768, 869, 857, 950, 1053,
> 1,156, 1275, 1271, 1467.  This looks like a running total of interest,
> but it is the sum of these values that is used to determine the "loan
> balance".

She did "touch" the interest capitalizations, just not directly. It
sounds as though every year she took a small withdrawal in the form of
a loan. The insurance carrier charges interest on that loan balance
because that treat the withdrawal as if it is still in the policy
earning interest (even though it's really in her pocketbook). However,
instead of paying the loan interest annually, she took another loan to
pay the interest on the former loan. She likely did not actually
engage in any action as this process is automatic unless the interest
payment is remitted to the insurer by other means (i.e. she writes a
check).

Unfortunately, it's time to pay the piper. She invested $10k, withdrew
some of the earnings, continued to receive interest on those earnings,
did not pay out of pocket interest for that priviledge, enjoyed tax
deferred growth, and then cancelled the policy (for which she received
$10k-12k). She almost assuredly owes taxes on the $26k. At 20%
automatic withholding, that's about $6500 in taxes. Although it's easy
to feel bitter, you shouldn't. Had the insurance company reduced her
cash value instead of charging interest she would likely have gotten
much less in the long run.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Arthur on May 23, 2008, 10:26 am
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>
>
>
> > In 1989 my mother spent 10,000 dollars on a single premium insurance
> > policy. Every year, until 2004 she took out some amount which was (As
> > far as I can tell from the records) slightly less than the interest
> > amount she accrued. She decided to cash the whole thing in this year.
> > She received (before taxes) a little over 12K. However, the insurance
> > company is reporting her taxable gains as about 26K. looking at the
> > records the 26K = the total she took out, (+ 12K-10K) + the sum of
> > "Interest Capitalizations"* which total about 14.5K. As far as I can
> > tell, she never touched the "Interest Capitalizations" but they are
> > part of her "Loan Balance". Can anyone explain this? Will she have to
> > pay taxes on 26K worth of income? According to the records, they gave
> > her about 7K of the 5K and took the rest out for taxes already which
> > seems rather steep.
>
> > *The "Interest Capitalizations" are a series of figures which goes
> > approximately like this: (dollar figures)
> > 60, 129, 200, 277. 356, 432, 507, 587, 674, 768, 869, 857, 950, 1053,
> > 1,156, 1275, 1271, 1467. This looks like a running total of interest,
> > but it is the sum of these values that is used to determine the "loan
> > balance".
>
> She did "touch" the interest capitalizations, just not directly. It
> sounds as though every year she took a small withdrawal in the form of
> a loan. The insurance carrier charges interest on that loan balance
> because that treat the withdrawal as if it is still in the policy
> earning interest (even though it's really in her pocketbook). However,
> instead of paying the loan interest annually, she took another loan to
> pay the interest on the former loan. She likely did not actually
> engage in any action as this process is automatic unless the interest
> payment is remitted to the insurer by other means (i.e. she writes a
> check).
>
> Unfortunately, it's time to pay the piper. She invested $10k, withdrew
> some of the earnings, continued to receive interest on those earnings,
> did not pay out of pocket interest for that priviledge, enjoyed tax
> deferred growth, and then cancelled the policy (for which she received
> $10k-12k). She almost assuredly owes taxes on the $26k. At 20%
> automatic withholding, that's about $6500 in taxes. Although it's easy
> to feel bitter, you shouldn't. Had the insurance company reduced her
> cash value instead of charging interest she would likely have gotten
> much less in the long run.


Thank you very much. I suspected something like that, but I was not
sure.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Seth on May 24, 2008, 2:07 am
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>Unfortunately, it's time to pay the piper. She invested $10k, withdrew
>some of the earnings, continued to receive interest on those earnings,
>did not pay out of pocket interest for that priviledge, enjoyed tax
>deferred growth, and then cancelled the policy (for which she received
>$10k-12k). She almost assuredly owes taxes on the $26k.

She originally invested $10K. She withdrew interest over 15 years
(how much, in total? Say, 14K?) Now she's getting a final $12K. So
her total withdrawals are $26K. So she should owe tax on the net,
$16K.

Or were her total withdrawals over the years more like $24K?

Seth

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Arthur on May 24, 2008, 11:50 am
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On May 24, 2:07 am, se...@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately, it's time to pay the piper. She invested $10k, withdrew
> >some of the earnings, continued to receive interest on those earnings,
> >did not pay out of pocket interest for that priviledge, enjoyed tax
> >deferred growth, and then cancelled the policy (for which she received
> >$10k-12k). She almost assuredly owes taxes on the $26k.
>
> She originally invested $10K. She withdrew interest over 15 years
> (how much, in total? Say, 14K?) Now she's getting a final $12K. So
> her total withdrawals are $26K. So she should owe tax on the net,
> $16K.
>
> Or were her total withdrawals over the years more like $24K?
>
> Seth

Her total withdrawals were about $9400

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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