Home Page link  

US citizen foreign resident.

 

Taxes General Forum - Tax professionals meeting place and answers to queries. (Moderated)

 Post an article  get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
US citizen foreign resident. PeterL 04-27-2008
Posted by Katie on April 28, 2008, 6:54 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> On Apr 28, 7:44 am, se...@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
>
> > >Well, he lived in Texas for 3 yrs prior to moving overseas.
>
> > Wouldn't that make him a Texas resident then?
>
> > >  Before
> > >that he was again overseas.  So we are only a convenient place for him
> > >to send his mail, including his US bank acct., investment acct, and
> > >driver's license.  So he actually has not lived in Ca for the last 9
> > >yrs.
>
> > He was a Texas resident after he was a California resident, and he has
> > never resided in California since becoming a Texas resident, right?
>
> > Which state is his driver's license from?
>
> > Seth
>
> Well that's the deal.  He moved back home to CA for just a little bit
> after Texas, then he went overseas.  He did not live or work in Texas
> for all of 2007.  He has never worked in CA.  But all his mail and his
> driver license is CA.  He does not own a car nor real estate.  His
> only connection to CA now is his DL and the addresses of his US bank
> acct. and investment acct.
>


Why did he obtain a California driver's license? How long was he in
California before he left for the foreign country? Why is he in the
foreign country? How long does he expect to be there? What are his
plans after he returns to the US?

If he did change his domicile (his primary home) from Texas to
California before he left the country, he would still be a nonresident
of California if he is absent on an employment-related contract for
an uninterrupted period of at least 18 months. Such an absence is
"uninterrupted" as long as he is not in California for more than 45
days of any taxable year. Calif. Rev. & Tax. Code Sec. 17014(d).

If his absence is not employment-related, or for some other reason he
does not meet the safe harbor, then the question is whether his
domicile changed from Texas to California before he left the country,
and if it did, whether his absence from California is temporary or
transitory. In order to change domicile, generally a person must meet
all of three requirements: (1) abandon the previous domicile (move
away from it); (2) move to and reside in a new location (i.e., light
somewhere); and (3) intend to remain in the new location permanently
or indefinitely. Whether the OP's son met all three of those tests
depends on all of the facts and circumstances. Moving his bank and
investment accounts to California and obtaining a California driver's
license could be interpreted to reflect an intention to return to live
in California after his foreign activites are over and indicate a
change of domicile. If he lives in California after he returns to the
U.S., questions may be asked, and depending on all of the facts and
circumstances, he could be considered a California resident during his
absence. However, even if he is domiciled in California, he is a
nonresident if his absence is not for a temporary or transitory
purpose. Also, unless he came to California from Texas with the
intention of making a permanent home here, his domicile probably
remains in Texas even if he left no physical ties there.

There is no simple yes or no answer; it depends on all of the facts
and circumstances. However, it is unlikely that the question will
ever arise unless he lives in California after he returns to the US.

Katie in San Diego

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by PeterL on April 28, 2008, 8:19 pm
Please log in for more thread options
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:44 am, se...@panix.com (Seth) wrote:
>
> > > In article
>
> > > >Well, he lived in Texas for 3 yrs prior to moving overseas.
>
> > > Wouldn't that make him a Texas resident then?
>
> > > >  Before
> > > >that he was again overseas.  So we are only a convenient place for him
> > > >to send his mail, including his US bank acct., investment acct, and
> > > >driver's license.  So he actually has not lived in Ca for the last 9
> > > >yrs.
>
> > > He was a Texas resident after he was a California resident, and he has
> > > never resided in California since becoming a Texas resident, right?
>
> > > Which state is his driver's license from?
>
> > > Seth
>
> > Well that's the deal.  He moved back home to CA for just a little bit
> > after Texas, then he went overseas.  He did not live or work in Texas
> > for all of 2007.  He has never worked in CA.  But all his mail and his
> > driver license is CA.  He does not own a car nor real estate.  His
> > only connection to CA now is his DL and the addresses of his US bank
> > acct. and investment acct.
>
> Why did he obtain a California driver's license?  How long was he in
> California before he left for the foreign country?  Why is he in the
> foreign country?  How long does he expect to be there?  What are his
> plans after he returns to the US?

Because he comes home for vacation every so often and it's easier to
have a CA DL instead of Texas, where he maintains no residence.

He was in CA for a couple of months before moving away, but has not
worked while in CA. He is employed in the foreign country, and
expects to be there for the foreseeable future. He has no plan to
return to the US at this time.

>
> If he did change his domicile (his primary home) from Texas to
> California before he left the country, he would still be a nonresident
> of California if he is absent on an employment-related contract for
> an  uninterrupted period of at least 18 months.  Such an absence is
> "uninterrupted" as long as he is not in California for more than 45
> days of any taxable year.  Calif. Rev. & Tax. Code Sec. 17014(d).
>

Yeah that's his situation.

> If his absence is not employment-related, or for some other reason he
> does not meet the safe harbor, then the question is whether his
> domicile changed from Texas to California before he left the country,
> and if it did, whether his absence from California is temporary or
> transitory.  In order to change domicile, generally a person must meet
> all of three requirements:  (1) abandon the previous domicile (move
> away from it); (2) move to and reside in a new location (i.e., light
> somewhere); and (3) intend to remain in the new location permanently
> or indefinitely.  Whether the OP's son met all three of those tests
> depends on all of the facts and circumstances.  Moving his bank and
> investment accounts to California and obtaining a California driver's
> license could be interpreted to reflect an intention to return to live
> in California after his foreign activites are over and indicate a
> change of domicile.  If he lives in California after he returns to the
> U.S., questions may be asked, and depending on all of the facts and
> circumstances, he could be considered a California resident during his
> absence.  However, even if he is domiciled in California, he is a
> nonresident if his absence is not for a temporary or transitory
> purpose.  Also, unless he came to California from Texas with the
> intention of making a permanent home here, his domicile probably
> remains in Texas even if he left no physical ties there.
>
> There is no simple yes or no answer; it depends on all of the facts
> and circumstances.  However, it is unlikely that the question will
> ever arise unless he lives in California after he returns to the US.
>

Since he dosen't owe any CA taxes (I checked by filling out his CA tax
return). So would it be simpler just filling out his CA return, so
there won't be any question if California comes calling because his
1099 from his bank acct and investment acct all list a CA address?


> Katie in San Diego
>

========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
- please trim the post to which you are responding

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by removeps-groups@yahoo.com on April 28, 2008, 10:30 pm
Please log in for more thread options

> Since he dosen't owe any CA taxes (I checked by filling out his CA tax
> return). So would it be simpler just filling out his CA return, so
> there won't be any question if California comes calling because his
> 1099 from his bank acct and investment acct all list a CA address?

Is the reason he does not owe any CA taxes because of the foreign
earned income exclusion -- IRS form 2555 which reduces your foreign
earned income (mostly wages, self employment income, but not interest,
dividends, capital gains) by about 85k? If so, there might be a time
when his foreign salary grows to over 85k, and interest, dividends,
capital gains may become sizeable too in the future. If he files a CA
tax return for 2007 and owes nothing, no problem. But in the future
he might owe something. If he suddently stops filing a CA return when
that happens, that might give them FTB reason to wonder what is going
on. If he has not filed a CA return in 9 years, keep it that way.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by John Levine on April 28, 2008, 11:55 pm
Please log in for more thread options
>> return). So would it be simpler just filling out his CA return, so
>> there won't be any question if California comes calling because his
>> 1099 from his bank acct and investment acct all list a CA address?

The California Franchise Board is very aggressive and has a long
memory. A few years back, I gave a talk in California from which they
withheld tax, so since I live in New York, I filed a return to get it
back. Instead of a check, I got a form letter telling me that they'd
taken it because my wife had underpaid her 1992 California taxes
(before we got married), in a year when she moved from Tokyo to Palo
Alto, due to a mistake by her tax preparer writing down the date that
she moved.

If he has a California license and gets mail at a California address,
they're going to presume that he is a California resident, and you
should have incontrovertible documentation that he is not. This
suggests that filing a California return would be a bad idea unless
you are sure that he'll never ever owe California tax.

Not related to taxes, if he really spends all his time somewhere else,
the somewhere else doubtless has a time limit for getting a local
license that he's probably long past.

R's,
John

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by removeps-groups@yahoo.com on April 29, 2008, 1:04 pm
Please log in for more thread options

> The California Franchise Board is very aggressive and has a long
> memory. A few years back, I gave a talk in California from which they
> withheld tax, so since I live in New York, I filed a return to get it
> back. Instead of a check, I got a form letter telling me that they'd
> taken it because my wife had underpaid her 1992 California taxes
> (before we got married), in a year when she moved from Tokyo to Palo
> Alto, due to a mistake by her tax preparer writing down the date that
> she moved.

So did you manage it to get it back eventually?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Similar ThreadsPosted
LLC for US Citizen / non-resident July 2, 2006, 10:44 pm
Estate taxes between non-resident and a citizen September 9, 2007, 10:09 pm
Re: Estate taxes between non-resident and a citizen September 12, 2007, 10:05 pm
Re: Estate taxes between non-resident and a citizen September 14, 2007, 12:35 am
Foreign Resident and Stock Options January 12, 2007, 2:47 am
Foreign Resident Head of Household April 16, 2007, 4:44 pm
New expat: US/Foreign tax & bona fide resident. March 5, 2008, 9:45 am
Does a permanent resident have to pay taxes on foreign family gifts? September 5, 2008, 2:17 am
Foreign Earned Income exclusion: bona fide resident rule allows > 30 day vacation in the USA? March 19, 2007, 2:23 am
Illinois resident/non resident and schedule NR April 9, 2007, 2:51 am

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
This site is not affiliated with Intuit - makers of Quickbooks and Quicken software
This site is not affiliated with Sage Software - makers of Peachtree accounting software
XML SitemapXML Sitemap