Home Page link  

What can a Roth IRA own?

 

Taxes General Forum - Tax professionals meeting place and answers to queries. (Moderated)

 Post an article  get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
What can a Roth IRA own? Dick Adams 04-20-2008
Posted by Harlan Lunsford on April 21, 2008, 5:13 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Dick Adams wrote:
>
>> I'm quite sure that IRS has not approved any
>> prototype plan for quite this situation. But
>> there are plans for owning securities in any
>> companies, so that is not the problem. Finding
>> a willing custodian/trustee is the problem.
>
> Where are the qualifications and rules for being
> a custodian?

Independence in thought and action.
>
>> Self dealing would be no problem just as long
>> as he or any company he controlled had no
>> dealings with those selected. After all, it's
>> just ownership of stock which wouldn't in itself
>> help one of those companies.
>
> This question was asked of me by an accountant.
> Based on the above statement, am I correct in
> inferring that he could not be the accountant
> compiling monthly financials and preparing tax
> returns for companies in which his Roth had
> invested even if he exercized no management
> functions?

I'm quite sure that IRS would not approve of this arrangement,
because he does have a financial interest in companies his
self directed ROTH might buy.

I'm wondering also whether or not the AICPA might have some
strictures and prohibitions on the subject. Eh?


(most intervening comments deleted because of bias of the writer.....!)
grin)
>
> Considering the Chicago Chokers of Wrigley Graveyard
> infamy have had only 16 winning seasons over the last
> 60 years (and six of those were in the Durocher years
> (1967-1972), I would cut that probability of them
> being in a WS at 30% and winning it at 15%. Of course,
> these odds would change if they moved out of that
> cracker jack ballpark and into a major league ballpark.
> Unless that happened, I'll lay a 750ml bottle of Jack
> Daniels Single Barrel against an equivalent bottle of
> your choice of Scotch that Windy City Whuses do not
> win a WS by 2030.

EgaD! Do you realize how OLD you'll be by then?
>
> I expect the only Major League team in Chicago, YOUR
> Chicago White Sox, will win two more World Series by
> 2030.

Time will tell. In fact, as Groucho said,
"Time flies like an arrow,
but fruit flies like bananas."
>
>> Given your past comments I just wonder; IF I wound up
>> with two tickets to game seven and offered you one,
>> would you take it?
>
> Harlan, I would be honored to attend any baseball game
> with a valued colleague. I would accept the ticket and
> attend UNLESS I had to sit near Commissioner Kevorkian!
> I would, of course, root for the AL team - even if it
> was Darth Vader's contempable Bronx Street Urchins.

Was hoping you would be the winner of the extra ticket.
When it occurs, (not IF), I'll need your address and SSN for the 1099-misc.

Best ChEAr$,
Harlan

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Dick Adams on April 21, 2008, 6:31 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> Dick Adams wrote:

>>> I'm quite sure that IRS has not approved any
>>> prototype plan for quite this situation. But
>>> there are plans for owning securities in any
>>> companies, so that is not the problem. Finding
>>> a willing custodian/trustee is the problem.

>> Where are the qualifications and rules for being
>> a custodian?

> Independence in thought and action.

I have a complete lack of knowledge of IRA
custodial issues. My question should have been
worded "What does one do to be a custodian?"

>>> Self dealing would be no problem just as long
>>> as he or any company he controlled had no
>>> dealings with those selected. After all, it's
>>> just ownership of stock which wouldn't in itself
>>> help one of those companies.

>> This question was asked of me by an accountant.
>> Based on the above statement, am I correct in
>> inferring that he could not be the accountant
>> compiling monthly financials and preparing tax
>> returns for companies in which his Roth had
>> invested even if he exercized no management
>> functions?

> I'm quite sure that IRS would not approve of
> this arrangement, because he does have a
> financial interest in companies his self-directed
> ROTH might buy.

I am NOT picking at straws, but everyone with a
self-directed IRA who invests in the company for
which they work has a financial interest in the
investment. Is the case of a contractual
accountant that different or would it be the
percentage of ownership.

> I'm wondering also whether or not the AICPA might
> have some strictures and prohibitions on the
> subject. Eh?

The last time I looked the AICPA rulespaffected only
auditors, not bean counters.

> (most intervening comments deleted because of bias
> of the writer.....!) (grin)

Facts are not biases. ;)

>> Considering the Chicago Chokers of Wrigley Graveyard
>> infamy have had only 16 winning seasons over the last
>> 60 years (and six of those were in the Durocher years
>> (1967-1972), I would cut that probability of them
>> being in a WS at 30% and winning it at 15%. Of course,
>> these odds would change if they moved out of that
>> cracker jack ballpark and into a major league ballpark.
>> Unless that happened, I'll lay a 750ml bottle of Jack
>> Daniels Single Barrel against an equivalent bottle of
>> your choice of Scotch that Windy City Whuses do not
>> win a WS by 2030.

> EgaD! Do you realize how OLD you'll be by then?

Since I am both younger and better looking than you,
it is not in your self interest to bring up age.

>> I expect the only Major League team in Chicago, YOUR
>> Chicago White Sox, will win two more World Series by
>> 2030.

>>> Given your past comments I just wonder; IF I wound up
>>> with two tickets to game seven and offered you one,
>>> would you take it?

>> Harlan, I would be honored to attend any baseball game
>> with a valued colleague. I would accept the ticket and
>> attend UNLESS I had to sit near Commissioner Kevorkian!
>> I would, of course, root for the AL team - even if it
>> was Darth Vader's contempable Bronx Street Urchins.

> Was hoping you would be the winner of the extra ticket.
> When it occurs, (not IF), I'll need your address and
> SSN for the 1099-misc.

What a guy! You offer me a ticket, ask if I will take
it, and then you want to issue me a 1099? But then
most Cub fans can't spell 1099!

Dick

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Harlan Lunsford on April 21, 2008, 8:56 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Dick Adams wrote:
>> Dick Adams wrote:

> I have a complete lack of knowledge of IRA
> custodial issues. My question should have been
> worded "What does one do to be a custodian?"
>
>>>> Self dealing would be no problem just as long
>>>> as he or any company he controlled had no
>>>> dealings with those selected. After all, it's
>>>> just ownership of stock which wouldn't in itself
>>>> help one of those companies.
>
>>> This question was asked of me by an accountant.
>>> Based on the above statement, am I correct in
>>> inferring that he could not be the accountant
>>> compiling monthly financials and preparing tax
>>> returns for companies in which his Roth had
>>> invested even if he exercized no management
>>> functions?
>
>> I'm quite sure that IRS would not approve of
>> this arrangement, because he does have a
>> financial interest in companies his self-directed
>> ROTH might buy.
>
> I am NOT picking at straws, but everyone with a
> self-directed IRA who invests in the company for
> which they work has a financial interest in the
> investment. Is the case of a contractual
> accountant that different or would it be the
> percentage of ownership.
>
>> I'm wondering also whether or not the AICPA might
>> have some strictures and prohibitions on the
>> subject. Eh?
>
> The last time I looked the AICPA rulespaffected only
> auditors, not bean counters.
>
(a bunch snipped here for brevity's sake.
>
>> EgaD! Do you realize how OLD you'll be by then?
>
> Since I am both younger and better looking than you,
> it is not in your self interest to bring up age.

(see below)
>
>>> I expect the only Major League team in Chicago, YOUR
>>> Chicago White Sox, will win two more World Series by
>>> 2030.

they're not MY White Sox.
>
>>>> Given your past comments I just wonder; IF I wound up
>>>> with two tickets to game seven and offered you one,
>>>> would you take it?
>
>>> Harlan, I would be honored to attend any baseball game
>>> with a valued colleague. I would accept the ticket and
>>> attend UNLESS I had to sit near Commissioner Kevorkian!
>>> I would, of course, root for the AL team - even if it
>>> was Darth Vader's contempable Bronx Street Urchins.
>
>> Was hoping you would be the winner of the extra ticket.
>> When it occurs, (not IF), I'll need your address and
>> SSN for the 1099-misc.
>
> What a guy! You offer me a ticket, ask if I will take
> it, and then you want to issue me a 1099? But then
> most Cub fans can't spell 1099!
>
> Dick
>
First of all, a custodian would have to be in charge of authoring
or at least implementing such an arrangement. If your friend in
accounting can find such a fellow, more power to him.

However to your latter concern. Any company for which I "do the books",
i.e. all taxes and financial statement year end, is one in which I do
NOT have a financial interest, except for getting paid end of month.
But then, I have no interest in investing in a hardware store,
convenience store, or much less a plumbing repair business.
OR a motors sports enterprise, just a few of the S corporations for
which I "do the books".

But if I did have such an interest, e.g. obtaining shares of stock
monthly for my services, I would immediately disqualify myself from
ever serving in any trustee type relationship, whether as
custodian/trustee of an IRA or other. It's bad enough that I have to
file their monthly sales tax returns electronically and actually pay
their tax liabilities with reference to their checking accounts!
that is NOT to my liking.

Younger? I grant you that. But better looking? I doubt that. I look
the same as I did at age 50.

yes I can: "ten" "zero" niner, nine! dash miscerlenush!

(See what a Scotch plus Drambuie wild do to you? (grin

Of course with a 1099- misc it will be up to you to determine whether
or not it is subject to SE tax.

ChEA$R
Harlan

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Seth on April 23, 2008, 12:22 pm
Please log in for more thread options
>Dick Adams wrote:

>> This question was asked of me by an accountant.
>> Based on the above statement, am I correct in
>> inferring that he could not be the accountant
>> compiling monthly financials and preparing tax
>> returns for companies in which his Roth had
>> invested even if he exercized no management
>> functions?
>
>I'm quite sure that IRS would not approve of this arrangement,
>because he does have a financial interest in companies his
>self directed ROTH might buy.

He could spend a lot of money getting a private ruling which _might_
allow it. But I doubt it; the accountant has management influence
even if no formal authority. Besides, if his investment keeps the
company from going under, some of it flows to him as pay.

>> Unless that happened, I'll lay a 750ml bottle of Jack
>> Daniels Single Barrel against an equivalent bottle of
>> your choice of Scotch that Windy City Whuses do not
>> win a WS by 2030.
>
>EgaD! Do you realize how OLD you'll be by then?

Have to give the Scotch time to age, don't we?

Seth

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by Harlan Lunsford on April 23, 2008, 2:09 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Seth wrote:

>
>>> Unless that happened, I'll lay a 750ml bottle of Jack
>>> Daniels Single Barrel against an equivalent bottle of
>>> your choice of Scotch that Windy City Whuses do not
>>> win a WS by 2030.
>> EgaD! Do you realize how OLD you'll be by then?
>
> Have to give the Scotch time to age, don't we?

Only talking about taxed Scotch whisky in the barrel, which doesn't
apply to most of us tax pros. Whisky doesn't age or get better once
it's in the bottle.

Slainte!,
Harlan

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Similar ThreadsPosted
Roth IRA? Please explain the taxes in reference to Roth IRA vs. Traditional April 3, 2008, 4:03 pm
Rollover of Roth 401k into Roth IRA February 11, 2008, 2:17 pm
ira/Roth December 12, 2006, 1:56 am
SEP / Roth IRA February 11, 2008, 2:19 pm
Roth IRA May 4, 2008, 11:26 am
roth IRA conversion yes or no? December 20, 2006, 1:26 am
How to qualify for ROTH IRA? February 2, 2007, 1:51 am
ROTH questions February 9, 2007, 12:30 am
Traditional vs. Roth IRA April 12, 2007, 12:44 am
SEP IRA to Roth Conversions? April 12, 2007, 6:32 pm

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
This site is not affiliated with Intuit - makers of Quickbooks and Quicken software
This site is not affiliated with Sage Software - makers of Peachtree accounting software
XML SitemapXML Sitemap