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Subject Author Date
determine dependency netvoy 03-03-2008
Posted by Alan on March 4, 2008, 1:52 pm
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 Seth wrote:
>> Seth wrote:
>
>>> If he was incarcerated starting in the second half of the year, it's
>>> quite possible he lived with his brother more than half the year, and
>>> his brother provided more than half his support. (How would you
>>> calculate the amount the government paid for his support, anyway?)
>>>
>> You would use the fair rental value of a shared cell plus the
>> state's cost of meals, clothing, education, medical and dental
>> services, entertainment and security services. (:D
>
> I'm not sure that security should count.
>
>> In reality, most states publish their cost per inmate.
>
> What does that have to do with "fair market value"?
>
> Seth
>
FMV deals with lodging. The other items are cost. If you can
come up with a fair rental value of a shared cell that is less or
more than the state's cost.. good luck to you.(:D

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Posted by Tom Russ on March 4, 2008, 4:03 pm
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>Someone asked:
> >>> How can you determine support for an incarcerated person?

> You would use the fair rental value of a shared cell plus the
> state's cost of meals, clothing, education, medical and dental
> services, entertainment and security services. (:D

Well, I suppose that one could argue about some of these. While not a
tax professional, to my layman's eyes it seems that:

1. Meals, clothing, medical care costs would be reasonable support
costs.

2. The security services seem to be for the convenience of the state,
not something done for the benefit of the inmate.

3. The fair market rental value of the cell is likely to be difficult
to gauge. Considering some of the roommate issues, one could even
argue the value is negative. How much would the ordinary person be
willing to pay in order NOT to be in the prison cell? How much would
you have to pay someone to stay there of their own free will, absent
compulsion by court authority? I would think that the cost of
maintaining the cell would not be FMV, given that one party to the
transaction is not taking part of their own free will, but rather
under quite strong compulsion.

That said, I don't think I would want to be the one to test any of
these positions in (tax) court.

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Posted by Harlan Lunsford on March 4, 2008, 6:37 pm
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Seth wrote:
>> netvoy wrote:
>>> How can you determine support for an incarcerated person? Does the
>>> goverment provide support? Situation: on a possible claim of head of
>>> household (a brother) paying house mortgage for inmate; can it be said
>>> that incarcerated is a dependent of his (meeting the unmarried
>>> status) on the relationship alone? Is it necessary to meet a support
>>> test; if so how do you determine financial figures on this?
>>> Is incarceration even if release date unknown a temporary absence?
>>>
>> The inmate would have had to live with his brother for more than
>> six months and would have to be a dependent of his brother. As
>> the government is providing all of his support, he could not be a
>> dependent.
>
> If he was incarcerated starting in the second half of the year, it's
> quite possible he lived with his brother more than half the year, and
> his brother provided more than half his support. (How would you
> calculate the amount the government paid for his support, anyway?)
>
Simple, Stu. You ask the state for the FMV of lodging furnished! LOL

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
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<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
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<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
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Posted by Arthur Kamlet on March 7, 2008, 11:52 am
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>>>> How can you determine support for an incarcerated person? Does the
>>>> goverment provide support? Situation: on a possible claim of head of
>>>> household (a brother) paying house mortgage for inmate; can it be said
>>>> that incarcerated is a dependent of his (meeting the unmarried
>>>> status) on the relationship alone? Is it necessary to meet a support
>>>> test; if so how do you determine financial figures on this?
>>>> Is incarceration even if release date unknown a temporary absence?
>>>>
>>> The inmate would have had to live with his brother for more than
>>> six months and would have to be a dependent of his brother. As
>>> the government is providing all of his support, he could not be a
>>> dependent.


If inmate lived with brother more than 6 months, and
if inmate is under age 19, or otherwise meets age test, and
if inmate did not provide more than half his own support,
+ the state did
they why wouldn't inmate be a qualifying child of brother?

(I know, a whole lot of If's)
--


ArtKamlet at a o l dot c o m Columbus OH K2PZH

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<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by D. Stussy on March 8, 2008, 2:38 am
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> How can you determine support for an incarcerated person? Does the
> goverment provide support? Situation: on a possible claim of head of
> household (a brother) paying house mortgage for inmate; can it be said
> that incarcerated is a dependent of his (meeting the unmarried
> status) on the relationship alone? Is it necessary to meet a support
> test; if so how do you determine financial figures on this?
> Is incarceration even if release date unknown a temporary absence?

One answer not given: How long is the sentence? If the sentence is 1 year
or less, then I would call it a temporary absence. If it is a life sentence
without the possibility of parole, then it is not a temporary absence. I
would venture to say that the IRS would call a sentence in excess of two
years before parole could be granted as a non-temporary absence - but
remember the Tax Court's extension of "temporary" to mean in excess of a
decade (in a slightly different context) from TC Memo 2003-232 - because any
sentence less than life would mean that the convict would intend to return
to society and probably to the residence he owns when entering prison
(assuming he can retain ownership during the incarceration) - and thus his
absence from his residence would be "temporary" in that he intends to
return. (For the other experts, I am also basing this on the "change in tax
home" revenue rulings as well.)

Others have already addressed the support issue of the State vs. the
brother. I won't go there.

Watch out for any wages he does earn while an inmate and make certain that
the wages (plus any other income outside of prison) don't exceed the
dependency exemption amount.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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