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Subject Author Date
taxes on lawsuit settlements/legal fees Woody 05-06-2008
Posted by D. Stussy on May 7, 2008, 10:11 pm
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> Woody wrote:
> >>> I am suing a professional for actual damages. When I win, will the
> >>> proceeds
> >>> be taxable, since they are just to reimburse me for what I lost? Are
my
> >>> legal fees tax deductable?
> >>>
> >>> If it is more complicated than this, what are the issues involved?
>
> >> It is more complicated. What is the nature of the damage you suffered?
> >>
> > My accountant gave me advice which turned out to be seriously wrong,
> > resulting in much higher taxes. He had all the information needed to
answer
> > correctly, but (apparently) chose to make incorrect assumptions rather
than
> > looking at the information.
>
> I found a good overview and discussion of some of the issues involved at
>
> www.weitzlux.com/irs/lawsuitsettlements_915.html
>
> (I have no connection to the publisher of this web site.)
>
> All income from whatever source is taxable, unless specifically
> excluded. Physical injury settlements are specifically excluded,
> punitive damages normally are taxable.

Right (and that paraphrases IRC 104). However, the key word is INCOME. Not
all transfers of money represent income to any/all of the parties involved.

Suits of equity are about making one whole for some damage. Income should
be recognized in them only when the payment is to represent income lost via
the act of damage (back pay, lost wages, earning potential, etc....) or when
it is reimbursement for an amount permitted as a deduction (tax benefit
rule). Otherwise, it's not income and therefore doesn't fall under the
general rule of inclusion in IRC 61.

Punitive damages are a matter of law, not of equity, and that's why they're
taxable.

> Are you saying that your taxable income would have been the same,
> regardless of whether you had received "correct" or incorrect advice?
> In other words, the bad advice resulted only in higher taxes on the same
> amount of income?
>
> Taxation of lawsuit settlements has itself been taken to court on
> numerous occasions. On top of that, they are often not reported, or
> mis-reported, on Form 1099-MISC.
>
> Good luck with trying to come out ahead on this!

It's too bad that the Supremes chose not to hear Murphy (493 F.3d 170) -
SupCt Docket 07-802. If you agree with the first impression of the appeal,
maybe you can cause conflict between circuits and get this settled for once
and all. I believe that the first impression was the correct result.

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<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
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Posted by Woody on May 8, 2008, 12:26 am
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>> Woody wrote:
>> >>> I am suing a professional for actual damages. When I win, will the
>> >>> proceeds
>> >>> be taxable, since they are just to reimburse me for what I lost? Are
> my
>> >>> legal fees tax deductable?
>> >>>
>> >>> If it is more complicated than this, what are the issues involved?
>>
>> >> It is more complicated. What is the nature of the damage you suffered?
>> >>
>> > My accountant gave me advice which turned out to be seriously wrong,
>> > resulting in much higher taxes. He had all the information needed to
> answer
>> > correctly, but (apparently) chose to make incorrect assumptions rather
> than
>> > looking at the information.
>>
>> I found a good overview and discussion of some of the issues involved at
>>
>> www.weitzlux.com/irs/lawsuitsettlements_915.html
>>
>> (I have no connection to the publisher of this web site.)
>>
>> All income from whatever source is taxable, unless specifically
>> excluded. Physical injury settlements are specifically excluded,
>> punitive damages normally are taxable.
>
> Right (and that paraphrases IRC 104). However, the key word is INCOME.
> Not
> all transfers of money represent income to any/all of the parties
> involved.
>
> Suits of equity are about making one whole for some damage. Income should
> be recognized in them only when the payment is to represent income lost
> via
> the act of damage (back pay, lost wages, earning potential, etc....) or
> when
> it is reimbursement for an amount permitted as a deduction (tax benefit
> rule). Otherwise, it's not income and therefore doesn't fall under the
> general rule of inclusion in IRC 61.
>
> Punitive damages are a matter of law, not of equity, and that's why
> they're
> taxable.
>
>> Are you saying that your taxable income would have been the same,
>> regardless of whether you had received "correct" or incorrect advice?
>> In other words, the bad advice resulted only in higher taxes on the same
>> amount of income?
>>
Yes, my income would have been the same in any event; it more or less comes
down to improper deduction timing.

Since it is not income, but a damage of avoidable taxes paid, it presumably
would not be taxable?
Would the legal fees still be deductable even if the award is not taxable?

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by John H. Fisher on May 8, 2008, 9:32 am
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>
>
>
>
> >> Woody wrote:
> >> >>> I am suing a professional for actual damages. When I win, will the
> >> >>> proceeds
> >> >>> be taxable, since they are just to reimburse me for what I lost? Are
> > my
> >> >>> legal fees tax deductable?
>
> >> >>> If it is more complicated than this, what are the issues involved?
>
> >> >> It is more complicated. What is the nature of the damage you suffered?
>
> >> > My accountant gave me advice which turned out to be seriously wrong,
> >> > resulting in much higher taxes. �He had all the information needed to
> > answer
> >> > correctly, but (apparently) chose to make incorrect assumptions rather
> > than
> >> > looking at the information.
>
> >> I found a good overview and discussion of some of the issues involved at
>
> >>www.weitzlux.com/irs/lawsuitsettlements_915.html
>
> >> (I have no connection to the publisher of this web site.)
>
> >> All income from whatever source is taxable, unless specifically
> >> excluded. �Physical injury settlements are specifically excluded,
> >> punitive damages normally are taxable.
>
> > Right (and that paraphrases IRC 104). �However, the key word is INCOME.
> > Not
> > all transfers of money represent income to any/all of the parties
> > involved.
>
> > Suits of equity are about making one whole for some damage. �Income should
> > be recognized in them only when the payment is to represent income lost
> > via
> > the act of damage (back pay, lost wages, earning potential, etc....) or
> > when
> > it is reimbursement for an amount permitted as a deduction (tax benefit
> > rule). �Otherwise, it's not income and therefore doesn't fall under the
> > general rule of inclusion in IRC 61.
>
> > Punitive damages are a matter of law, not of equity, and that's why
> > they're
> > taxable.
>
> >> Are you saying that your taxable income would have been the same,
> >> regardless of whether you had received "correct" or incorrect advice?
> >> In other words, the bad advice resulted only in higher taxes on the same
> >> amount of income?
>
> Yes, my income would have been the same in any event; it more or less comes
> down to improper deduction timing.
>
> Since it is not income, but a damage of avoidable taxes paid, it presumably
> would not be taxable?
> Would the legal fees still be deductable even if the award is not taxable?
>
> --
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
> << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, � >>
> << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties �>>
> << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. � � � � � � � � �>>
> << � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �
� � � � � � � � � >>
> << � The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts � >>
> << �to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy �>>
> << � � � � � � � � �are atwww.asktax.org. � � � �
� � � � >>
> << � � � � Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. � � � � >>
> << ------------------------------------------------------- >>- Hide quoted
text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The legal funds could be deductible only to the extent they were
charged for the recovery of "TAXABLE" income.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by removeps-groups@yahoo.com on May 8, 2008, 12:11 pm
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> Yes, my income would have been the same in any event; it more or less comes
> down to improper deduction timing.

Just curious what the specifics are. Normally you have to take a
deduction in the year that you pay it. That's if you're a cash basis
taxpayer. If you're an accrual basis taxpayer, then the rules are a
little different.

Or are you saying that the person advised you to, for example, make a
charitable contribution in December 2006 whereas January 2007 would
have been better because you took the standard deduction in 2006 (so
lost the benefit of the tax deduction) but itemized in 2007 (so you
could have got the benefit of the tax deduction)? In this case, I'm
not sure the damages would be tax free.


> Since it is not income, but a damage of avoidable taxes paid, it presumably
> would not be taxable?

This may be right, but we'd have to see all the facts to know for
sure. There's also the issue of if you took a state tax deduction for
excess tax paid as pointed out elsewhere in this thread.

Have you considered filing an amended return? This way you avoid
lawyers fees and the hassle of proving to a judge that your damages
are not taxable. Plus it might be better for the original tax
preparer's reputation and they may do the ameded return for free.

> Would the legal fees still be deductable even if the award is not taxable?

Yes.

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

Posted by removeps-groups@yahoo.com on May 9, 2008, 2:12 pm
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On May 8, 9:11 am, "removeps-gro...@yahoo.com" <removeps-
gro...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Would the legal fees still be deductable even if the award is not taxable?
>
> Yes.

Stussy's response is correct. I checked, and legal fees are not
deductible if they give tax free income.
http://www.wwwebtax.com/deductions_miscellaneous/legal_fees.htm

--
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>
<< The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
<< nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
<< that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
<< >>
<< The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
<< to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
<< are at www.asktax.org. >>
<< Copyright (2007) - All rights reserved. >>
<< ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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